# Stupid liberal idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086 "2011-04-20T15:35:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1221 "2013-10-04T14:09:59Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > I just realized that the Tea Party cretins in Congress all **think** the same way as Clothahump. . . . No . . . that’s too strong a word. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1222 "2013-10-04T16:24:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > . . . No . . . that’s too strong a word. What do you call it when a monkey does something because another monkey does it? Ape? Can I say that? Is it racist? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1223 "2013-10-04T17:22:34Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Exactly. At some point the financial backers of the TP Republicans are going to say “OK kiddies. You’ve had your fun. Now it will stop.” > > And it will stop. This [Slate article](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/10/03/wall_street_debt_ceiling_gop_won_t_bow_to_banks_wishes.html) would beg to differ - basic argument is that the GOP is the party of low taxes, business men love low taxes, and both the GOP and the business men know that the business guys aren’t going to swing their support to the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1224 "2013-10-04T17:42:38Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > This [Slate article](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/10/03/wall_street_debt_ceiling_gop_won_t_bow_to_banks_wishes.html) would beg to differ - basic argument is that the GOP is the party of low taxes, business men love low taxes, and both the GOP and the business men know that the business guys aren’t going to swing their support to the Democrats. The only thing business men like more than low taxes is high profits, and when one party consistently places ideology over economic performance, business men will do the math and conclude that the economic policies of Democrats yield higher profits that economic policies of Republicans, even when offset by higher taxes. Simply put, they make more money when they pay higher taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1225 "2013-10-04T17:44:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The only thing business men like more than low taxes is high profits, and when one party consistently places ideology over economic performance, business men will do the math and conclude that the economic policies of Democrats yield higher profits that economic policies of Republicans, even when offset by higher taxes. Simply put, they make more money when they pay higher taxes. How could we objectively test your thesis? (The thesis being that business owners will “do the math,” as you predict; not the thesis that the “math” is correct). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1226 "2013-10-04T17:46:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How could we objectively test your thesis? (The thesis being that business owners will “do the math,” as you predict; not the thesis that the “math” is correct). I don’t think any test nor cite is needed for the proposition that businesscritters are bottom-line-oriented. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1227 "2013-10-04T18:58:19Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t think any test nor cite is needed for the proposition that businesscritters are bottom-line-oriented. True, but frequently humans allow their emotional responses (Obama is a socialist Hitler Muslim) overcome their logical brain functions (I’m actually better off under xxx policy) This is even true with businesses. It’s probably why some businesses fail - the owners have made irrational decisions that actually ended up screwing their profits. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1228 "2013-10-04T20:02:16Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t think any test nor cite is needed for the proposition that businesscritters are bottom-line-oriented. These are the same business critters that are cutting hours to get out of potential healthcare requirements, and thereby probably losing their good employees? The American business critter has been trained to never look past the next quarters profit statement, if even that far into the future. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1229 "2013-10-04T23:21:42Z")
They needn’t worry about losing their good employees until they have someplace to go. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1230 "2013-10-05T00:48:47Z")
Didn’t our president recently proclaim there was no “widespread evidence” that employers were cutting back on workers’ hours to avoid their health care requirements? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1231 "2013-10-05T00:56:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Didn’t our president recently proclaim there was no “widespread evidence” that employers were cutting back on workers’ hours to avoid their health care requirements? Well, did he? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1232 "2013-10-05T01:01:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Didn’t our president recently proclaim there was no “widespread evidence” that employers were cutting back on workers’ hours to avoid their health care requirements? Would it kill you to link to something? And the ACA is not causing employers to cut hours, the employer’s mandate has been pushed back a year. If they cut workers’ hours, it’s because they’re selfish, greedy assholes who are blaming the ACA for their own stinginess. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1233 "2013-10-06T06:11:49Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Well, did he? > [@runner pat](#): > > Would it kill you to link to something? Sorry, guys, been away from the computer and just saw your posts. Here’s a link: [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/26/obama-claims-no-widespread-evidence-health-law-hurts-jobs-amid-cutbacks/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/26/obama-claims-no-widespread-evidence-health-law-hurts-jobs-amid-cutbacks/) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1234 "2013-10-06T06:25:27Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sorry, guys, been away from the computer and just saw your posts. Here’s a link: > > [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/26/obama-claims-no-widespread-evidence-health-law-hurts-jobs-amid-cutbacks/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/26/obama-claims-no-widespread-evidence-health-law-hurts-jobs-amid-cutbacks/) Pathetic. Stupid uneducated conservatives like yourself don’t have the mental fortitude to make two neurons rub sticks together to fire off a synapse signal. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1235 "2013-10-06T06:41:38Z")
I thank you for your thoughtful analysis of the president’s remarks. (But hey, the best defense is a strong, clumsy and tortured offense, eh? ;)) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1236 "2013-10-06T07:13:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Sorry, guys, been away from the computer and just saw your posts. Here’s a link: > > [http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/26/obama-claims-no-widespread-evidence-health-law-hurts-jobs-amid-cutbacks/](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/26/obama-claims-no-widespread-evidence-health-law-hurts-jobs-amid-cutbacks/) As pointed before, Unions are upset about some items of the ACA but they (in the end of the articles that the right never seems to read fully) the Union leaders are still supportive of the new law. The reality is that what Faux reports there is mostly anecdotes, as many of the requirements for businesses were delayed for a year, those business have other reasons for their dick moves. > **[Fox Ignores Economists To Stoke Fears About Obamacare Fueling Part-Time Jobs](https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/fox-ignores-economists-stoke-fears-about-obamacare-fueling-part-time-jobs)** > [@](#): > > Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody’s Analytics, who previously suggested that the ACA may spur part-time job growth, recently told USA Today that labor market data show no such trend: > > ``` > As more data come in, the law's impact can't be seen in hiring statistics, says Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Analytics. > > "I was expecting to see it. I was looking for it, and it's not there,'' says Zandi, whose firm manages ADP's surveys of overall private-sector job creation. If the Affordable Care Act "were causing a drop, you would see meaningful slowing.'' > > ``` > > Zandi is not alone in his analysis. Economists Jared Bernstein and Paul Van de Water of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, looking at the share of involuntary part-time workers, came to a similar conclusion: > > ``` > If the ACA's employer mandate were distorting hiring practices in the way critics claim, we'd expect the share of involuntary part-timers to be growing. Instead, it is down about one percentage point off of its peak. > > ``` > > Studying the effect of the ACA on part-time work using average weekly hours data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Helene Jorgensen and Dean Baker of the Center for Economic and Policy Research also found similar results: > > ``` > An analysis of data from the Current Population Survey shows that only a small number (0.6 percent of the workforce) of workers report working just below the 30 hour cutoff in the range of 26-29 hours per week. Furthermore, the number of workers who fall in this category was actually lower in 2013 than in 2012, the year before the sanctions would have applied. This suggests that employers do not appear to be changing hours in large numbers in response to the sanctions in the ACA. > > ``` > > By multiple measures and ways of parsing employment data, economists cannot seem to find any effect of the ACA on part-time work. Furthermore, while MacDonald claimed that the trend in part-time work is accelerating, part-time employment is actually down from its recession peak. > > If Fox was actually concerned about part-time work in the U.S., perhaps it should join the chorus of economists who advocate for additional government spending to aid an ailing labor market. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1237 "2013-10-06T07:42:41Z")
You (and the previous poster) seem to be missing the point. Some of the posters upthread were complaining about all the business people who were cutting back on worker hours to avoid their health care requirements. I merely pointed out that the president himself declared this not to be so, and when asked I posted a link showing that he had indeed said that. In other words, I’m making no argument or assertion beyond my original comment. Not every post I make is intended to spark an argument. I was simply making an observation. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1238 "2013-10-06T08:08:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You (and the previous poster) seem to be missing the point. Some of the posters upthread were complaining about all the business people who were cutting back on worker hours to avoid their health care requirements. I merely pointed out that the president himself declared this not to be so, and when asked I posted a link showing that he had indeed said that. In other words, I’m making no argument or assertion beyond my original comment. Not every post I make is intended to spark an argument. I was simply making an observation. What the president said was that there was ‘no widespread evidence’, that is indeed not denying that there are some businesses doing it, and among those few they are doing it for other reasons than the ACA as the evidence shows. Not the same as your misleading observation that the president said that “this not to be so”. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1239 "2013-10-06T15:25:26Z")
I believe it’s implicit in the term “no widespread evidence” that some is going on. Keep in mind also that I don’t necessarily believe the president is being truthful. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086/1240 "2013-10-06T15:48:47Z")
Whatever the accuracy of the statement, I don’t see how it can be said to be stupid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-liberal-idea-of-the-day/579086.md?page=63)