# Stupid/obvious crossword clues? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 7, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428 "2011-12-07T23:21:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/41 "2011-12-09T22:18:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t know about American cryptics, but clues like that are quite common in standard American puzzles. Though of course I can’t think of any examples right now. Yes, I have certainly encountered punning clues in NYT puzzles (not that these types of clues always rely on puns; there are other ways of crafting a misleading definition). However, among the North American cryptic crossword community, it seems to be almost a rule that cryptic clues must be of the form definition + wordplay (or vice versa). British-style “cryptic definitions”, as they’re known, are verboten. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/42 "2011-12-13T05:36:54Z")
> [@wheresgeorge04](#): > > [In this thread about lazy crossword clues](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=622302&highlight=crossword), I made the following post: > > […] > > Are we now giving half of the answer in clues? I suppose only one-third of the answer is given in the clue “Shaw’s Monogram,” since the Shaw referenced is George Bernard, not Robert, but that doesn’t excuse it. > […] > > Joe Wait, are you implying you were doing a crossword with 2-letter answers? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/43 "2011-12-13T05:40:05Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Fencing sword. (Epee) If I ever wrote a crossword, I would make sure to throw FOIL in there to mess with the people expecting EPEE for the 4-letter fencing sword clue. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/44 "2011-12-13T07:08:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Wait, are you implying you were doing a crossword with 2-letter answers? 😕 Yeah, the TV section has a crossword with a lot of 2-letter answers. On the days when I finish the three (sometimes four!) real crosswords on Sunday, I am forced to do the TV one. I work Sunday mornings at 6 AM at a gas station, which is dead time, so I have the opportunity to do a lot of other stuff. Joe ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/45 "2011-12-13T07:12:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t know about American cryptics, but clues like that are quite common in standard American puzzles. Though of course I can’t think of any examples right now. One of my favorites from a relatively recent NYT puzzle: A bum rap? (11) BABY GOT BACK ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/46 "2011-12-13T07:28:56Z")
> [@](#): > > If I ever wrote a crossword, I would make sure to throw FOIL in there to mess with the people expecting EPEE for the 4-letter fencing sword clue. I’ve also occasionally seen CZAR instead of TSAR for “Russian autocrat”. Not very often, but just enough to keep you on your toes. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/47 "2011-12-13T16:25:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve also occasionally seen CZAR instead of TSAR for “Russian autocrat”. Not very often, but just enough to keep you on your toes. That’s one I always fill in as “–AR” (and then immediately check the orthogonal clues to see whether I can disambiguate) because I’ve seen it as CZAR, as well. (Which is the more common spelling in English anyway, isn’t it? Not that it matters in crosswords.) I’m still a bit surprised that there are crosswords with two-letter answers. If I saw such a crossword–unless I have some reason to believe it’s a specialty crossword that makes clever use of the two spaces somehow–I would run far, far away from it. The clues that **wheregeorge04** complains about (along with the rest of the examples in this thread) are exactly what I’d expect from a constructor who doesn’t even know the basic conventions or is too lazy to make a proper grid. I’m not a crossword expert by any means, but crosswords that insult your intelligence or are just straight definitions suck. That pretty much just leaves me with NYT crosswords that I can reliably enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/48 "2011-12-13T17:26:36Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not a crossword expert by any means, but crosswords that insult your intelligence or are just straight definitions suck. That pretty much just leaves me with NYT crosswords that I can reliably enjoy. There are other good, clever, intelligent crosswords being made today besides the NYT. [See here](http://www.fleetingimage.com/wij/xyzzy/nyt-links.html) for a list, with links. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/49 "2011-12-13T17:48:33Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > There are other good, clever, intelligent crosswords being made today besides the NYT. [See here](http://www.fleetingimage.com/wij/xyzzy/nyt-links.html) for a list, with links. I’ve tried the LA Times ones years ago, and I didn’t get the enjoyment out of them as the NYT puzzles. I’ll try some of those other ones, though. I just really like the clue editing and philosophy of Will Shortz. Believe it or not, I actually did once come across a reasonable book of Dell puzzles. (At least I think it was Dell.) It was one of those books I picked up at a gas station on a long trip, expecting to be disappointed, but was pleasantly surprised. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/50 "2011-12-13T21:06:22Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Moved MPSIMS –\> the Game Room > > **twicks** , who’s written thousands and thousands of crossword clues and never scraped the bottom of that particular barrel > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > twickster, do you write puzzles for any newspaper syndicate, or do you do them for yourself? Hi \*\*SFP \*\* – Sorry for the delay in responding. I’ve been away from the Boards for several days, so am just now seeing this. I was an editor for a major publisher of puzzle magazines for 14 years. I left that job in '06, but still do occasional freelance work for them, including test-solving their cryptic (British-style) crosswords. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/51 "2011-12-13T21:06:41Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s one I always fill in as “–AR” (and then immediately check the orthogonal clues to see whether I can disambiguate) because I’ve seen it as CZAR, as well. Or the “poetic name for Ireland”, or the like, where you’re stuck with E— until you get another letter (is it ERIN or EIRE?). ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/52 "2011-12-15T03:08:29Z")
Are there still diagramless puzzles? Their clues were often stupid and obvious, but the trick was to fit them into a grid. That wasn’t always easy! ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428/53 "2011-12-15T17:32:27Z")
I just saw one last night that fits the OP’s question. Clue: In a line Answer: LINEAR And this was in a puzzle that usually has very clever clues and obscure references. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-obvious-crossword-clues/605428.md?page=2)