# Stupid Poles **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 7, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607 "2003-03-07T00:01:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Florentine\_Pogen\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Florentine\_Pogen\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Florentine_Pogen_1)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/41 "2003-03-08T04:03:23Z")
I always thought that it was because of the Polish Cavalry WWII story. They march valiantly towards the invading Germans _on horses_ only to be massacred by Panzers. Though this story isn’t the whole truth (I think they were spotted by zee Germans and ambushed, they didn’t actually try to attack ). Though now that I think of it, dumb Pole jokes probably outdate WW2, and someone probably just stretched the truth of this story to reinforce the stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/42 "2003-03-08T04:11:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > **In Minnesota, it’s probably more common to make fun of Norweigan immigrants than it is Polish ones, if only because so few Polish people historically settled the Northern Midwest.** _What?_ Polish-born residents in the 1920 U.S. census: Wisconsin: 50,558 Illinois: 162,405 Minnesota: 18,537 Michigan: 103,926 Iowa: 2,028 Polish-born residents in the 1930 U.S. census: Wisconsin: 42,359 Illinois: 173,007 Minnesota: 15,015 Michigan: 119,228 Iowa: 1,875 Polish-Americans became the butt of jokes because as a group the Poles were the last major wave of immigrants to the U.S. before new immigration laws in 1924 severly restricted the flow. To other Americans, the last in were the least assimilated. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/43 "2003-03-08T08:11:21Z")
Heh. I guess I wasn’t there long enough to notice the Polish names or something. Oh well. Thanks for the info, **Walloon**. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/44 "2003-03-08T20:01:04Z")
So what about Polonius? You can’t blame that on the social politics of American immigration – “Hamlet” was written in the Sixteenth Century. Why would (English) people assume, then, that Poles are stupid? Also – I read a series of science-fiction novels, the “Adventures of Conrad Stargard” series, by Leo Frankowski. It’s a “Connecticut Yankee” story – a 20th-Century Polish engineer (that’s Polish-Polish, not Polish-American) stumbles onto a time machine and gets transported back to medieval Poland, where he has seven years to organize and industrialize the country before the Mongols invade. Exciting books, great reads. In any case, several times in passing, the protagonist, Conrad, muses on the stereotypical view foreigners have of Poles – which is not that Poles are stupid, but that they DO EVERYTHING BACKWARD. I don’t know if this is true, but the books were written by a Polish-American and, apparently, very well researched. And this theory would fit in perfectly with the original light-bulb joke and others of its kind. Of course, it would not fit in with all those other Polish jokes that portray Poles as stupid, filthy slobs. ---
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/45 "2003-03-08T21:00:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FranticMad \* > \*\*Hard to say. Maybe [1690](http://www.local.ie/content/14845.shtml) \*\* I think if you had read the page you cited you would find that english has not been a second language in Ireland for the last 200 years. It has been the first language of the majority of the population during this period. Khadaji Said : > [@](#): > > Almost every ethnic group that immigrated to the US in large waves had jokes made about them. They are an easy target because they are new and English is their second language. Poles, Italians, Chinese, Irish, etc. It is easy to pass off someone as stupid just because they speak English poorly. AS most Irish emigration to the US was during this period then Khadajis statement was incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/46 "2003-03-08T22:19:50Z")
As having been raised in the south, I’ve usually heard stupid black or lazy Hispanic jokes. Of course, these are seldom in themselves, as racist jokes are rather uncommon. Never really heard a Polish joke, but I knew they existed. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/47 "2003-03-08T23:23:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rick \* > **About the only ones he didn’t know were the Scotish sheep jokes.** Over here, sheep jokes tend to be told by the English about the Welsh, Australians or New Zealanders not the Scots (I presume too few Americans are familiar with Wales to make the connection?). I believe the Australians also tell them about New Zealanders. In my experience nationality-based jokes display the teller’s ignorance of the target nationality more than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/48 "2003-03-09T02:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrainGlutton \* > I don’t know how Poles got such a reputation for stupidity, but it must go back along way, at least in the English-speaking world. Why else did Shakespeare name his stupidest character “Polonius”? Okay, here’s your logic. 1. The stereotype is that Poles are stupid. 2. Polonius is stupid. 3. Polonius means “Polish”. 4. Therefore Shakespeare knew and was using the stupid Pole stereotype. I’ll comment on point 4 first, just to ask if you have any other cites in Shakespeare or his contemporaries to back this up. The rest of my comments address point 2. Polonius makes a number of mistakes and he is pompous and pedantic. People may find that laughable, but it isn’t the same as stupid, and that kind of person can be found everywhere, not just among Poles. The name “Polonius” itself has attracted some attention. In the first Quarto of “Hamlet”, possibly earlier than the standard version, the character’s name is Corambis, not Polonius. Polonius may refer to a specific person: “Polish statesman Laurentius Grimalius Goslicius” and whose style of writing was considered by some to be “self- important, pedantic, and repetitious.” There was also a Polish ambassador who addressed Queen Elizabeth in a long reproachful tirade in Latin. She responded, also in Latin, and her response was considered masterful. Polonius may be a mocking reference to him. Lord Burleigh, one of Queen Elizabeth’s most trusted advisors, may have had the nickname “Polus” (pole or axis). This, however, is disputed. [http://www.shakespeare-bulletin.org/issues/spring02/kliman.html](http://www.shakespeare-bulletin.org/issues/spring02/kliman.html) [http://www.sourcetext.com/sourcebook/atoms/corambis3.html](http://www.sourcetext.com/sourcebook/atoms/corambis3.html) Your speculation seems to be groundless. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/49 "2003-03-09T06:25:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by karomon \* > \*\*Where does the popular stereotype of Polish people come from? That they’re stupid, I mean. I’m pretty sure this school of thought exists mostly in the US. Why not stupid Ukranians? or Laotians? Is it because of the historical helplessness of the country as a whole? > Karolina Zaniesienko \*\* What decade are you living in? Most people stopped telling Polish jokes in the 60’s. The only people that still tell Polish jokes are old people. ---
**Author:** ![yolady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/f04885/32.png) [@yolady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yolady)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/50 "2003-03-09T21:44:59Z")
When I was in Russia, I met a guy from India who told me a “stupid Sikh” joke. He was quite shocked when I told him that there is no such stereotype in North America. He even argued that it wasn’t a stereotype but a simple fact. I’ve been told Yorkshire people are considered stupid and have jokes told about them in the U.K. Since my grandparents were from Yorkshire, I was interested to hear that. ---
**Author:** ![karomon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@karomon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/karomon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/51 "2003-03-10T04:28:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*What decade are you living in? Most people stopped telling Polish jokes in the 60’s. The only people that still tell Polish jokes are old people. \*\* Often, when I introduce myself as being Polish, the person I’m speaking to will a) make a face, b) say “Oh, then you probably don’t want to hear my favorite Polish joke” and/or c) tell me their favorite Polish joke. I’m not saying people BELIEVE the stereotype. I’m just saying that my nationality makes people giggle and I want to know why. It sounds like I’m being touchy about this, but I swear I’m not. I’m just curious. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/52 "2003-03-10T07:08:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by karomon \* > \*\*Often, when I introduce myself as being Polish, the person I’m speaking to will a) make a face, b) say “Oh, then you probably don’t want to hear my favorite Polish joke” and/or c) tell me their favorite Polish joke. > > I’m not saying people BELIEVE the stereotype. I’m just saying that my nationality makes people giggle and I want to know why. > > It sounds like I’m being touchy about this, but I swear I’m not. I’m just curious. \*\* And how many people greeting you with a “Polish joke” admonition or offer are under 40 years old? I’d guess _very_ few. Polish jokes simply have no cultural resonance or context anymore except to older people and those of Polish heritage who _love_ to tell Polish jokes. My ex is 100% Polish on both sides so I know whereof of I speak re her older relatives procilities to poke fun at themselves. I can’t even remember of the last time someone under 50 tried to tell a Polish joke. They’re so out of date culturally they’re just not funny anymore. It’s like trying to tell a joke about Italian “Wops” or Irish “Micks”. Ethnic jokes for or about people that have been here long enough to be third or 4th generation by this time have flat, musty vaudeville feel to them. ---
**Author:** ![karomon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@karomon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/karomon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/53 "2003-03-10T16:28:01Z")
I am 20 years old. Most of the people I meet are my age. Also, I volunteer in a program where I’m always meeting teenagers. A lot of the wiseass ones make comments. Most of them have never met a Polish person before, but somehow, it’s ingrained in their mind that, at least as far as humor is concerned, Polish = dumb. Have you seen the new Budweiser commercial (I think it’s Bud, might be some other beer) ? It’s supposed to be a play on all those “A \_\_\_\_\_ walks into the bar…” jokes. They have a blonde, a redhead and a brunette sitting at a table. The blonde is having trouble opening her beer. A guy walks through the door with a duck under his arm. He is followed by a nun, a rabbi and a priest (?). There’s three guys wearing soccer jerseys and they all say POLANSKI. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/54 "2003-03-10T16:33:49Z")
Anecdotal reference: Lived in/near Chicago all my life. Last name ends in “ski”, and as a kid I knew just about as many dumb jokes - including Polack jokes - as anyone. My dad, lifelong Chicagoan born in 1920, said when he was young most common were Bohemian jokes. Seems like “dumb Polack” has developed staying power, tho. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/55 "2003-03-11T00:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yolady \* > \*\*I’ve been told Yorkshire people are considered stupid and have jokes told about them in the U.K. Since my grandparents were from Yorkshire, I was interested to hear that. \*\* People from Yorkshire are assigned several stereotypes but I don’t think “stupid” is one of them. They’re characterised as being mean with money, taciturn and severe for instance. People from metropolitan areas do tell jokes about people from rural areas though (isn’t that true everywhere?), and large parts of Yorkshire are rural, so people from London might use that as a basis for a joke, but they wouldn’t be more likely to pick on a Yorkshire farmer in preference to one from Lancashire or the rural south west or East Anglia. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/56 "2003-03-11T01:09:39Z")
Does there remain a General Question here? ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/57 "2003-03-11T02:10:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kite \* > \*\*Here in California, we don’t make fun of Polish people. We make fun of people from all the other states where people live who make fun of Polish people. More material. \*\* That’s amusing. Out here we have “He’s from California” as a way to explain otherwise inexplicably bizarre behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/58 "2003-03-11T02:12:41Z")
I didn’t know that a “Polack” was a Pole until I was sixteen. I thought they were from some sort of fictional “stupid people land”. I had heard of “Poles” and “Polish”, but never had them specifically associated with “Polacks”. Then again, I’ve only heard some ethnic slurs ever on “All in the Family”, never in actual conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/59 "2003-03-11T02:34:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*And how many people greeting you with a “Polish joke” admonition or offer are under 40 years old? I’d guess _very_ few. Polish jokes simply have no cultural resonance or context anymore except to older people and those of Polish heritage who _love_ to tell Polish jokes. My ex is 100% Polish on both sides so I know whereof of I speak re her older relatives procilities to poke fun at themselves. > > I can’t even remember of the last time someone under 50 tried to tell a Polish joke. They’re so out of date culturally they’re just not funny anymore.\*\* I don’t know man, growing up in the 80’s outside Chicago (I’m 24) we told a muchos Polish jokes. I’d imagine, but don’t know, that the practice continues. Q: How do you get a one armed polish man out of a tree? A: Toss him a ball. Ha! now _that_ is funny! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607/60 "2003-03-11T02:37:46Z")
There must be some reason that this question hs come up at least three times in the past couple of months. I don’t recall it coming up before. I’ve given my response in th previous threads. s far as Reverse Polish Notation (RPN), I feel certain that it would never be called that if not for the nationality of the inventor. Engineering innovations only seem to be named after nationalities rather than inventors if there’s a joke in it. ( la “The French Connection” mechanical limkag for hang gliders.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-poles/159607.md?page=4)