# Stupid Proprietary-Battery Camera Design **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 28, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372 "2011-11-28T20:34:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/61 "2011-12-03T03:51:49Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > Ok, but they also had models that were proprietary. Never said otherwise, but until recently they’ve also always offered AA cameras as well. All ultracompact cameras have used proprietary batteries from day 1. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/62 "2011-12-03T05:22:19Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > The second photo, if you were worth anything, photographically, is a photo with a WIDE range, from the blown out background to dark foreground. Left to their own devices, a lot of cameras wouldn’t take as good a picture. > > Now. Divorce yourself from composition. The following was taken to compare Apples to Apples. So to speak. > > iPhone 4s: > [Dark Room, camera flash](http://www.oddfiddlythings.com/iPhonePics/IMG_0910.jpg) > > [Living room, no flash](http://www.oddfiddlythings.com/iPhonePics/IMG_0907.jpg) > > [Close up, no flash](http://www.oddfiddlythings.com/iPhonePics/IMG_0909.jpg) > > And lastly, for comparison…[kitchen, handheld, no flash](http://www.oddfiddlythings.com/iPhonePics/IMG_0912.jpg) > > I could not hold, by hand, the other cameras in this comparison. > > [Nikon Coolpix 5400, no flash (circa 2004)](http://www.oddfiddlythings.com/nikon775/DSCN0553.jpg) > > [Sony DSC-HX1, no flash, multiple exposure (circa 2009)](http://www.oddfiddlythings.com/SonyPics/DSC02542.jpg) > > And lastly, a [Nikon D50 with a Nikkor ED lens (2005)](http://www.oddfiddlythings.com/NikonPics/DSC_4955.jpg) > > Say what you want, but I’d put the iPhone’s results up against any of the other cameras I have. And, yet again, Good photographers can take good pictures with any camera, and also, yet again, the Camera you have is worth more than that Penis compensator you left back at home. I’m sorry, but the iPhone 4s pictures are not very good. The iphone ISO setting are 500 with the flash and 800 without flash. The noise is high even for those ISO settings. The pictures are taken at 1/15th to 1/16th with results in a blurry picture without a tripod. BTW, your tone is over the top considering that all I’m saying is that your **phone** is not a great **camera**. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/63 "2011-12-03T05:29:45Z")
The only tone I’m writing is that the camera is a helluva lot better than anything with that little glass has a right to be. It ain’t no Hasselblad, but it’s no Disc camera, either. There’s a convenience factor. I spend more than enough time riding in the Colorado High Country…it’s a helluva lot easier to reach in your pocket and pull out your phone than it is to dig into the saddelbags and pull out the Nikon. And they’re only getting better. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/64 "2011-12-03T05:43:06Z")
iPhone camera does pretty well in good light outdoors. Outdoor activities are the times when convenience is most important; if you’re going to be somewhere indoors, it’s not much trouble to bring a better camera along. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/65 "2011-12-03T05:47:59Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > (ETA: It’s important to note the iPhone cost less than any of the other cameras here. ) The iPhone is a $679 dollar phone for $199 up front and 24 easy payments of $20 a month. You can buy a DSLR and a no contract Android phone for for that. Checked the prices on an unlocked iPhone 4s on Amazon. [http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr\_nr\_n\_1?rh=n%3A2335752011%2Ck%3Aiphone+4s%2Cn%3A%212335753011%2Cn%3A2407749011&bbn=2335753011&keywords=iphone+4s&ie=UTF8&qid=1322884262&rnid=2335753011](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_1?rh=n%3A2335752011%2Ck%3Aiphone+4s%2Cn%3A%212335753011%2Cn%3A2407749011&bbn=2335753011&keywords=iphone+4s&ie=UTF8&qid=1322884262&rnid=2335753011) ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/66 "2011-12-03T06:45:39Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > The iPhone is a $679 dollar phone for $199 up front and 24 easy payments of $20 a month. You can buy a DSLR and a no contract Android phone for for that. > > Checked the prices on an unlocked iPhone 4s on Amazon. > > [http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr\_nr\_n\_1?rh=n%3A2335752011%2Ck%3Aiphone+4s%2Cn%3A%212335753011%2Cn%3A2407749011&bbn=2335753011&keywords=iphone+4s&ie=UTF8&qid=1322884262&rnid=2335753011](http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_1?rh=n%3A2335752011%2Ck%3Aiphone+4s%2Cn%3A%212335753011%2Cn%3A2407749011&bbn=2335753011&keywords=iphone+4s&ie=UTF8&qid=1322884262&rnid=2335753011) But then you still need to buy a cellphone + contract. Which will be $80 a month with data. Come on, you really trying that hard to win this debate? Is it noisy? In some circumstances. Is it a pretty good point n shoot for a cellphone? Hell yeah! And I don’t think you’ll find many people debating that…for a **cellphone** camera, it’s pretty great. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/67 "2011-12-03T08:03:45Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > But then you still need to buy a cellphone + contract. Which will be $80 a month with data. Come on, you really trying that hard to win this debate? > > Is it noisy? In some circumstances. Is it a pretty good point n shoot for a cellphone? Hell yeah! And I don’t think you’ll find many people debating that…for a **cellphone** camera, it’s pretty great. Actually I’m on BoostMobile for $40 a month. Unlimited data is an extra $5, so the total would be $45. I was thinking of the ZTE Warp, which is $199.99 without a contract. [http://www.boostmobilestore.com/bpdirect/boost/PhoneList.do?action=view&id=warp](http://www.boostmobilestore.com/bpdirect/boost/PhoneList.do?action=view&id=warp) It got good reviews and it runs Android 2.3, like my tablet. For the camera, I had in mind the Canon EOS Rebel Digital T3 12.2 Megapixel Digital Camera W/ 18-55mm IS II Lens for $467. [http://www.42photo.com/pd-productid-105622-k-canon\_eos\_rebel\_digital\_t3\_122\_megapixel\_digital\_camera\_w\_18\_55mm\_is\_ii\_lens.htm](http://www.42photo.com/pd-productid-105622-k-canon_eos_rebel_digital_t3_122_megapixel_digital_camera_w_18_55mm_is_ii_lens.htm) To tell the truth, I hate changing lens myself and would probably use a superzoom like the Panasonic DMC-FZ150K. I have a 6 year old FZ5 and it is still a good camera. ---
**Author:** ![MobiusStripes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@MobiusStripes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MobiusStripes)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/68 "2011-12-03T12:54:25Z")
> [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](#): > > We still actively look for a camera that uses AA, for our everyday camera. My SO has large hands/fingers, and the thinner cameras just don’t feel comfortable to him. Almost all of the cameras that take AA batteries have a bulge at one end, to house them. That makes the fit much better for my SO. > > In addition, we occasionally take trips that take us to places where it’s not easy to recharge a battery, either AA or proprietary. We are always able to find AA (non-rechargable) batteries though. I suspect you’re looking for a point and shoot since that’s what “every day” camera means to me. (Which isn’t a sleight: I always have one on me too) But if you are thinking DSLR, consider that Nikon and Canon (and probably others) sell an extended grip that 1) makes the camera bigger and much easier to hold, 2) accepts AA cells. The one on my canon caries 6 AA or two of the proprietary LiONs, 3) it makes the camera heavier, which may or may not be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/69 "2011-12-05T06:32:29Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > But that’s not the choice; it’s Li-Ion vs low discharge NiMH… Lithium cells [beat the crap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_battery#Table_of_rechargeable_battery_types) out of those too, which is not surprising considering that the power specs are similar for alkaline and NiMH, though the latter have the advantage of providing more reliable power output from full charge to discharge vs. higher peak output for alkaline, but fluctuations in voltage during discharge. The energy density per weight unit is absurdly in Li-ion’s favor. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/70 "2011-12-05T11:46:20Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > To tell the truth, I hate changing lens myself and would probably use a superzoom like the Panasonic DMC-FZ150K. I have a 6 year old FZ5 and it is still a good camera. If you’re any kind of photographer, you won’t like aspects of pretty much any super zoom…sure, with enough fiddling, you can set stuff manually, but where my Sony falls down is in setting the focus and zoom while filming. All of the GORGEOUS little films you’ve seen recently come from DSLRs for a reason. I’d actually likes to replace my d50 body with a d300s or d7000, but I have more desires than money. (both use motors in the body vs the lens, saving my investment in glass.) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/71 "2011-12-05T13:10:23Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > Lithium cells [beat the crap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_battery#Table_of_rechargeable_battery_types) out of those too, which is not surprising considering that the power specs are similar for alkaline and NiMH Except in the digital camera application, where NiMH last far longer than Alkaline. You may get 20-30 shots from an Alkaline, and 200-300 from NiMH, and a similar number of shots from Lithiums. The main advantage of Lithiums IMO is low temperatures, where they excel. But the cost of Lithiums AAs makes them impractical for heavy use in digital cameras. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/72 "2011-12-05T23:38:09Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > If you’re any kind of photographer, you won’t like aspects of pretty much any super zoom…sure, with enough fiddling, you can set stuff manually, but where my Sony falls down is in setting the focus and zoom while filming. All of the GORGEOUS little films you’ve seen recently come from DSLRs for a reason. I’d actually likes to replace my d50 body with a d300s or d7000, but I have more desires than money. (both use motors in the body vs the lens, saving my investment in glass.) I will concede that there are things my FZ5 can’t do that a DSLR can, but you can’t beat the price since I got it for my 10 year anniversary at work for free. Technically DSLR cameras are obsolete since Sony and some other companies have managed to put APS-C sensors in a compact body. When I get some money, I will look for a new camera. I’d like to get into HDR photography and the cameras with the built in sweep panorama are cool. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/73 "2011-12-06T03:25:59Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Technically DSLR cameras are obsolete since Sony and some other companies have managed to put APS-C sensors in a compact body. There still is a pretty huge difference between an APS-C DSLR and the best compacts with APS-C sensors. The difference between those and a full frame DSLR are still pretty drastic. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/74 "2011-12-06T03:30:32Z")
A DSLR will _always_ win out. Simply because you cannot quickly change f.stop, shutter, zoom, and focus on the fly with ANYTHING less. Decoupling the focus, setting it a specific distance, then taking the shot right as the animal, athlete, or Sportscar hits that focus distance is something that is _MUCH_ easier to get on a DSLR. You can also get prime lenses. A superzoom point n shoot will always sacrifice f.stop for zoom. With a DSLR, you don’t have to. Lastly, the DSLR bodies I’ve seen and used are STOUT. They’re designed to work in the real hot, real cold, kinda moist conditions that professional photographers need them to. And for that they’re bulky and expensive. (Although not NEAR as expensive as it all used to be when it was a film hobby.) (ETA: This from the guy who was saying his iPhone was ‘all that’. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/75 "2011-12-06T05:27:09Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > ITechnically DSLR cameras are obsolete since Sony and some other companies have managed to put APS-C sensors in a compact body. I wish. Dragging an SLR around gets pretty tiresome, mine is about 4 pounds with grip, extra battery and a small prime lens. A large zooms makes it even heavier. But I don’t see compact bodies replacing DSLR for professionals, the amount of buttons and manual control that a pro requires won’t fit on a compact. Once you get used to your camera is like typing, or playing the piano, you know all the buttons by touch. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/76 "2011-12-06T07:25:12Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > It’s all about design obsolescence. If electronic gadgets called for using a standard battery size (AA, AAA, whatever), you would never upgrade. So those gadgets you “must have” only work with a proprietary battery. Oh yeah. The proprietary battery and charger will only be available for about 18 months and then production will cease. So if you want a replacement proprietary battery that is no longer available, your only choice is to but another electronic gadget, with its own new proprietary battery. > > Laptop manufacturers got this process nailed down. Bwah? Why can’t you just buy a third-party battery or go on eBay? It seems like obsolescence in the consumer tech world is more often caused by rapidly evolving tech than… batteries. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/77 "2011-12-06T13:00:54Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > A DSLR will _always_ win out. Simply because you cannot quickly change f.stop, shutter, zoom, and focus on the fly with ANYTHING less. You can do all of that with an EVIL or translucent prism camera today, neither are DSLRs. You could design all that into a compact body, and Ricoh has something similar. It has little to do with the DSLR concept, it’s just the way cameras are currently designed. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/78 "2011-12-06T13:22:12Z")
Then come back when they ARE designed that way. The EVIL cameras suffer from interpreting the scene and playing it back on a display, are expensive for what they are, and aren’t appreciably smaller than an ordinary DSLR. It’s 80% of what a DSLR will get you, with fewer lenses, for 110% of the price. cite: [http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2010/01/19/how-evil-cameras-work-better-than-a-dslr/](http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2010/01/19/how-evil-cameras-work-better-than-a-dslr/) We’re talking in gross generalities: “More glass = better”, “DSLR’s give more control”, “Phone cameras suck.” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/79 "2011-12-06T14:50:42Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > Then come back when they ARE designed that way. If you want all that, take a look at the [Fuji XS-1](http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujifilm_x_s1/) or the [X100](http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/fuji/finepix_x100-review) with manual focus, zoom and aperture rings. They operate pretty much like a DSLR in a compact package with innovative features like the cool hybrid view finder. They are available today in high end compact cameras without interchangeable lenses. The Canon S100 has a single ring around the lens that can be programed to adjust ISO, focus, zoom, shutter speed, or aperture. Not the same level of control as the Fujis but certainly a big step towards that in an extremely small body. The trend today is to make EVIL cameras the functional equivalent to DSLRs. Right now they are close and getting close with each iteration. In addition, since they are freed from the limitations of DSLR design they are doing new and different things. I have a hard time giving up the optical view finder, but these cameras are the fastest growing class of cameras today and will seriously cut into the sales of entry level DSLRs. The full frame DSLRs are still the work horses for professionals, but the majority of camera users don’t care about the features that make them great. DSLRs are great, but so are Lamborghinis. They do things that the vast majority of users don’t need or even know how to use. The trend is to take some of those features and port them down to the new classes of cameras as needed, especially since the lowest end class of digital camera is being replaced by the phone. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372/80 "2011-12-06T18:37:21Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > I wish. > > Dragging an SLR around gets pretty tiresome, mine is about 4 pounds with grip, extra battery and a small prime lens. A large zooms makes it even heavier. But I don’t see compact bodies replacing DSLR for professionals, the amount of buttons and manual control that a pro requires won’t fit on a compact. > > Once you get used to your camera is like typing, or playing the piano, you know all the buttons by touch. It looks like the NEX cameras are replacing DSLRs for some professionals in some applications. [http://www.ryanbrenizer.com/2011/11/review-sony-nex-5n/](http://www.ryanbrenizer.com/2011/11/review-sony-nex-5n/) Of course most professionals are pretty conservative about switching camera systems. If you have $10,000 in lens, you aren’t going to switch on a whim. I expect more professionals to try out the NEX now that they came out with the NEX-7. I won’t buy the Nex-7 unless I win the lottery. Here is a 'rolling review of the NEX-7. [http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony\_nex\_7\_rolling\_review.shtml](http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_nex_7_rolling_review.shtml) Based on the reviews I’ve read the controls still need some improvement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-proprietary-battery-camera-design/604372.md?page=5)