# Stupid religious Facebook friends **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558 "2009-12-17T00:03:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/81 "2009-12-17T21:33:46Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I thought we weren’t supposed to make generalizations about Christians. > > No, seriously. I’ve known plenty of nice, pleasant Christians. I’ve also known plenty of hateful and intolerant Christians. I wouldn’t say that Christians are generally hateful and intolerant, but I also wouldn’t say that Christians are generally nice and pleasant. Sorry, IME, we are nice people…the ones I know personally anyway. Sorry, I thought that was implied. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/82 "2009-12-17T21:36:11Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if there were a god who “lets” people die of terminal illnesses, why assume that it’s because he “hates” them? Wouldn’t it just be part of the supposed plan, perhaps to have a set time to recall the person into that really awesome place that believers say exists? ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/83 "2009-12-17T21:39:44Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > One can be religious and allow gay people to marry. > > Just because I am Christian does not mean that am believe in the ‘literal bible’ or the leviticus nonsense. > > In fact, my husband’s minister is openly gay and they are one of the first churches to accept openly gay members. > > You really hate Christians, don’t you? What a shame. We really are pretty nice people, in general. Or at least we try to be nice to others based on the tenets of our beliefs. The people? No. I hate that they all too often let unfounded religious beliefs change them for the worse. I hate that their beliefs get legislated into law. I hate that they are willing to accept a book written 2000 years ago by people dumber than the people today over modern science. But I don’t “hate Christians.” Just some of their actions. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/84 "2009-12-17T21:41:21Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > And yet you’re in the vast minority of religious people supporting gay marriage rights. Good for you. The last time I did anything significant with a group of Christians was a retreat a year and a half ago. They were all very nice people. That includes the legally married gays and lesbians in the congregation. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/85 "2009-12-17T21:41:37Z")
> [@umop\_ap\_sdn](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but if there were a god who “lets” people die of terminal illnesses, why assume that it’s because he “hates” them? Wouldn’t it just be part of the supposed plan, perhaps to have a set time to recall the person into that really awesome place that believers say exists? But if that’s the case, why bother praying? His plan isn’t going to change or be altered by a few people asking him to heal a disease. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/86 "2009-12-17T21:42:31Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > The people? No. I hate that they all too often let unfounded religious beliefs change them for the worse. I hate that their beliefs get legislated into law. I hate that they are willing to accept a book written 2000 years ago by people dumber than the people today over modern science. But I don’t “hate Christians.” Just some of their actions. Ah, so you hate the sin, not the sinners. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/87 "2009-12-17T21:44:03Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > The last time I did anything significant with a group of Christians was a retreat a year and a half ago. They were all very nice people. That includes the legally married gays and lesbians in the congregation. Yes, fine, there are some wonderfully progressive churches throughout the world, but as a whole, _in general_, it’s religion that is preventing gays from getting married and you know it. I don’t want to get into a debate over same-sex marriage or rights here, but it’s certainly not atheists who are proclaiming themselves as the morality police and pushing people to vote against equal rights for homosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/88 "2009-12-17T21:46:57Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > And yet you’re in the vast minority of religious people supporting gay marriage rights. Good for you. That’s utterly nonsensical. Let’s take California as an example. Proposition 8 passed 52-48. So we have 48% of the population supporting gay marriage. Sourcing from Pew Forum (which I’m getting by way of Wikipedia) says that 21% of California claims to be non-religious, 79% religious of all kinds. Presuming (in your favor) that the religious and non-religious voted at the same rate as their incidence in the general population, even if EVERY SINGLE non-religious person in California was pro gay rights, that means that 27% of voting religious Californians are pro-gay-rights. 1/4 is not a “vast minority”. For Arizona, same assumptions as to voting rates. Vote was 56%-44%. Religious/non-religious is 89%-11% Therefore at least 33% of Arizona’s religious people are pro gay marriage. 1/3 is not a “vast minority”. Want to maybe put up some actual facts? Or can we retire the strawman to the cornfield? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/89 "2009-12-17T21:47:53Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Yes, fine, there are some wonderfully progressive churches throughout the world, but as a whole, _in general_, it’s religion that is preventing gays from getting married and you know it. I don’t want to get into a debate over same-sex marriage or rights here, but it’s certainly not atheists who are proclaiming themselves as the morality police. No, let’s not hijack the thread. But I would think that it’s social conservatives that are spearheading the anti-gay movement. There just happens to be a lot of overlap between social conservatism and today’s religion. I’m sure that if we shook a few trees, a few homophobic atheists would fall out. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/90 "2009-12-17T21:50:43Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > That’s utterly nonsensical. Let’s take California as an example. > > Proposition 8 passed 52-48. So we have 48% of the population supporting gay marriage. > Sourcing from Pew Forum (which I’m getting by way of Wikipedia) says that 21% of California claims to be non-religious, 79% religious of all kinds. Presuming (in your favor) that the religious and non-religious voted at the same rate as their incidence in the general population, even if EVERY SINGLE non-religious person in California was pro gay rights, that means that 27% of voting religious Californians are pro-gay-rights. 1/4 is not a “vast minority”. > > For Arizona, same assumptions as to voting rates. Vote was 56%-44%. Religious/non-religious is 89%-11% Therefore at least 33% of Arizona’s religious people are pro gay marriage. 1/3 is not a “vast minority”. > > Want to maybe put up some actual facts? Or can we retire the strawman to the cornfield? Oh, so you’re debating the word “vast” now? Fine, 25% and 33% of religious people in those states are pro gay marriage. You’re still proving my point here, and that is the majority of religious people are against giving gay people equal rights because **they are intolerant of that lifestyle**. And why? Does their [homosexuals] choices affect them [religious people] in any way? No. Yet those religious people want to impose THEIR morals and THEIR beliefs on other people, and that’s been happening since the beginning of religion. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/91 "2009-12-17T21:57:07Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > No, let’s not hijack the thread. But I would think that it’s social conservatives that are spearheading the anti-gay movement. There just happens to be a lot of overlap between social conservatism and today’s religion. I’m sure that if we shook a few trees, a few homophobic atheists would fall out. Yes, I agree, which is unfortunate because wasn’t one of Jesus’ teachings to be tolerant and nonjudgmental of others? It seems all too often that many Christians follow the old testament rather than the much more pleasant (though still out-there) new testament. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/92 "2009-12-17T21:58:23Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Oh, so you’re debating the word “vast” now? Fine, 25% and 33% of religious people in those states are pro gay marriage. You’re still proving my point here, and that is the majority of religious people are against giving gay people equal rights because **they are intolerant of that lifestyle**. And why? Does their [homosexuals] choices affect them [religious people] in any way? No. Yet those religious people want to impose THEIR morals and THEIR beliefs on other people, and that’s been happening since the beginning of religion. Hey, I thought we were against posting illogical and unprovable statements, is all. I’ll certainly agree that a bare majority of the citizens in the US are anti-gay-marriage, and unless you can prove to me that my minimum cites are in fact correct, I don’t see how you can reasonably assert that the religious are any worse or better than average–I know rabid atheists who think gays are unnatural and should be discouraged/eliminated, and I know of at least two entire denominations of Christianity that are effectively pro-gay. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/93 "2009-12-17T22:00:05Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Yes, I agree, which is unfortunate because wasn’t one of Jesus’ teachings to be tolerant and nonjudgmental of others? It seems all too often that many Christians follow the old testament rather than the much more pleasant (though still out-there) new testament. Or possibly that they get all the press? ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/94 "2009-12-17T22:02:41Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Hey, I thought we were against posting illogical and unprovable statements, is all. I’ll certainly agree that a bare majority of the citizens in the US are anti-gay-marriage, and unless you can prove to me that my minimum cites are in fact correct, I don’t see how you can reasonably assert that the religious are any worse or better than average–I know rabid atheists who think gays are unnatural and should be discouraged/eliminated, and I know of at least two entire denominations of Christianity that are effectively pro-gay. Well sure, there’s always going to be people on the fringe within any set of beliefs (or lack thereof for atheists). It only makes sense to talk about the people on average, then. I’m not going to sit here and judge Christians based on the actions of Fred Phelps, but my point was as a whole, religious people are some of the least tolerant people around (whether against gays, people of other religions, or atheists especially). Which is why I found it quite funny that a religious person was calling me intolerant, when in general, as long as it doesn’t negatively impact me, I could care less what others do or say. Of course I can criticize it (free speech and all), but I’m not going to actively try to stop you from doing it (whatever it may be)… ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/95 "2009-12-17T22:04:07Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > Or possibly that they get all the press? Ahh, yes, so the issue has been marketing all along. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/96 "2009-12-17T22:04:18Z")
And I repeat (cause it seems you missed it). > [@perfectparanoia](#): > > Or possibly that they get all the press? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/97 "2009-12-17T22:20:41Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > Yes, I agree, which is unfortunate because wasn’t one of Jesus’ teachings to be tolerant and nonjudgmental of others? Jesus went out of his way to spend time with the outcasts and “sinners” of his day, but I don’t recall him teaching his followers to be tolerant an nonjudgmental of others. In fact Jesus was _quite_ judgemental of others. “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?”-- Jesus In anycase, this is far afield of the OP. People should post whatever the hell they want on their Wall without worrying about your sensibilities. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/98 "2009-12-17T22:29:45Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Rita Klaus’ healing is not anecdotal. It is a well-documented case, owing to the fact that over a dozen doctors had worked on her case before the healing and investigated the facts after it occurred. If you want to read their testimony, it’s reported in [Remarkable Recovery](http://www.amazon.com/Remarkable-Recovery-Extraordinary-Healings-Getting/dp/0788161741/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261077053&sr=1-1) or in summary in [The Miracle Detective](http://books.google.com/books?id=On5G6bZoVnEC&pg=PP1&dq=The+Miracle+Detective&cd=1#v=onepage&q=&f=false). The doctors testify, and it’s clear even from the quick description I linked to earlier, that this is not merely a case of the disease going into remission. Klaus has been wheelchair-bound for many years, her muscles had deteriorated to almost nothing, some of her bones were warped or fallen out of place, some of her ligaments had been cuts during surgery, she was nearly blind, yet all of this was healed in a few hours and she was restored to good health. > > As your your “what about them” argument, that’s another of the lame arguments that most people grew out of years ago. A miraculous healing is a gift from God. Just because something is highly unlikely or not easily explained does not make it a miracle. What makes something a miracle? It’s hard to define that, when even trying to prove that they exist is futile. If you want to define a miracle as “something really, really incredible that we can’t even begin to understand” fine, just don’t define it as proof that God was intervening. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/99 "2009-12-17T22:40:52Z")
> [@statsman1982](#): > > The chorus of the song gives the nutshell argument for the purpose of prayer. If you pray and get what you want, God answered your prayer. If you don’t get it, he listened, but didn’t give you what you asked for because it wasn’t in your best interest. > > Pretty convenient little system, huh? Equally great theologian Jim Carrey responded with his seminal work, [Bruce Almighty](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0315327/), in which he portrayed how poorly things might go if you just give everyone what they pray for. I’ve blocked a few facebook friends because their output was so glurgy that I couldn’t stand it, but, generally, what I want is a selective (smart) filter. Most of my religious friends post items of legitimate interest to me interspersed with (or, interwoven with) items of annoying jesuslove. I don’t want to block them completely; I just want to be spared the religiosity. Perhaps I should write a greasemonkey script… ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558/100 "2009-12-18T01:43:06Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > But if that’s the case, why bother praying? His plan isn’t going to change or be altered by a few people asking him to heal a disease. Oh I agree completely! For the record, I’m as atheist as they come… I just thought it worth mentioning that if one believes a person is “leaving this world”, it doesn’t necessarily follow that the person is despised by the very being they’re supposedly about to become one with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-religious-facebook-friends/521558.md?page=6)