# Stupid Republican idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897 "2009-03-26T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1029
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20562 "2015-03-29T03:49:38Z")
Anyway, since I seem to be offending some people with this hijack, why don’t we just agree that state RFRAs are not in fact, stupid Republican ideas. It can certainly be a piece of legislation that Democrats oppose, but I don’t think it’s helpful to characterize simply bringing a noncontroversial federal law to the states as stupid or extreme. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20563 "2015-03-29T03:59:32Z")
I’d like to be able to detect religious assholes by radar, set up some kind of shop and wait for a couple to come in range. And I’d leave a full set of clothes piled up in the middle of the floor and when they walk in I’d yell that somebody was just standing RIGHT THERE! And there was this flash of light and he’s gone! Then, I lean over and look through the clothes for the wallet, watch… Have a video that catches the exact moment they figure out that he’s been Raptured and they’re still there. Mount that on YouTube, totally viral! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20564 "2015-03-29T04:13:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Anyway, since I seem to be offending some people with this hijack, why don’t we just agree that state RFRAs are not in fact, stupid Republican ideas. It can certainly be a piece of legislation that Democrats oppose, but I don’t think it’s helpful to characterize simply bringing a noncontroversial federal law to the states as stupid or extreme. Noncontroversial? How in the name of fuck do you figure that? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20565 "2015-03-29T04:14:46Z")
Because the original passed nearly unanimously > **[Religious Freedom Restoration Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_Act)** > > The Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, Pub. L. No. 103-141, 107 Stat. 1488 (November 16, 1993), codified at 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb through 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-4 (also known as RFRA, pronounced "rifra"), is a 1993 United States federal law that "ensures that interests in religious freedom are protected." The bill was introduced by Congressman Chuck Schumer (D-NY) on March 11, 1993. A companion bill was introduced in the Senate by Ted Kennedy (D-MA) the same day. A unanimous U.S. House and RF... ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20566 "2015-03-29T07:33:16Z")
So did the Patriot act. That does not make it uncontroversial. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20567 "2015-03-29T09:35:01Z")
Can you get your own thread now ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20568 "2015-03-29T11:08:01Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, taxi drivers and delivery drivers of any sort can claim safety fears. The law gives people having to go places tremendous latitude in determining what they believe to be safe and unsafe, even if this has a hugely disproportionate effect on African-Americans. There does seem to be an “I’m scared shitless” exception to the CRA. Which is why black people complain about not being able to hail a cab, but no one actually does anything about it. You’ll need to cite this for me to accept it. Try to read your cite this time. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20569 "2015-03-29T11:44:43Z")
> **[Detroit cab drivers are refusing to pick up in neighborhoods](https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2014/06/11/detroit-cab-drivers-are-refusing-to-pick-up-in-neighborhoods/)** > > Kevin McDonald has been driving a cab in Detroit for 33 years. > **[Pizza delivery refusals show bias, residents say Drivers say snubs reflect...](https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1995-12-13-1995347105-story.html)** [http://www.sptimes.com/2007/07/25/news\_pf/Neighborhoodtimes/Crime\_turns\_pizzamake.shtml](http://www.sptimes.com/2007/07/25/news_pf/Neighborhoodtimes/Crime_turns_pizzamake.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20570 "2015-03-29T12:20:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [Detroit cab drivers are refusing to pick up in neighborhoods](http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-cab-drivers-are-refusing-to-pick-up-in-neighborhoods/26443740) > > [http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-12-13/news/1995347105\_1\_black-neighborhoods-delivery-people-pizza-delivery](http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-12-13/news/1995347105_1_black-neighborhoods-delivery-people-pizza-delivery) > > [http://www.sptimes.com/2007/07/25/news\_pf/Neighborhoodtimes/Crime\_turns\_pizzamake.shtml](http://www.sptimes.com/2007/07/25/news_pf/Neighborhoodtimes/Crime_turns_pizzamake.shtml) Do they deliver to white people in those neighborhoods? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20571 "2015-03-29T12:21:12Z")
CNN explains the law accurately. Key passage: > [@](#): > > “It would foil any lawsuit against a supplier who acted on religious grounds, but the law can get squirrely,” CNN Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin said, adding that it’s likely that a refusal to serve a gay person wouldn’t stand under the law, but a refusal to provide a service for a gay wedding would > **[Indiana’s religious freedom law: What you need to know | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/politics/indiana-religous-freedom-explainer/index.html)** > > Indiana Gov. Mike Pence stirred up controversy this week when he signed a “religious freedom” bill into law. So basically we can call it the “Making liberals keep their promises” Act. If you don’t like gay weddings, you don’t have to participate. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20572 "2015-03-29T12:27:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Do they deliver to white people in those neighborhoods? No. But let’s be real, the neighborhoods are being denied because they are black neighborhoods. However, governments are generally reluctant to enforce civil rights law to make people do things they believe are dangerous, and where their belief is backed up by facts. Cab drivers in particular are frequently victims of violent crime. So although there are complaints about their racial profiling, the government is never actually going to do anything about it. The fastest way to turn the public against anti-discrimination laws would be a crying widow saying, “The government made my husband pick that murderer up!” So it’s just not done. Prosecutorial discretion, you see.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20573 "2015-03-29T12:35:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No. But let’s be real, the neighborhoods are being denied because they are black neighborhoods. They are being denied service because of a history of violence. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20574 "2015-03-29T13:44:28Z")
Fair enough. But that also applies to black individuals, which is why cabbies can get away with driving right on by without risk of punishment. The Civil Rights Act is first about preventing government from discriminating. It’s second about preventing businesses from discriminating. Discrimination by individuals acting totally on their own is a distant third and offers the least protection, since a) it doesn’t really pay to spend federal resources going after individual bigots, and b) individuals have the best defenses in court, from freedom of religion to simple fears of safety. But really, this isn’t about federal law. It’s about state and local laws that do actually take the time to target individuals. Thus religious freedom being reaffirmed at the state level. If local governments want to go after florists, they need to prove in court that a compelling interest is at stake. Given the tiny amount of harm a florist refusing to come to your wedding causes, good luck with that. As I said before, the purpose of civil rights laws isn’t to prevent hurt feelings. It’s to prevent substantial harm. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20575 "2015-03-29T14:21:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I’d like to be able to detect religious assholes by radar, set up some kind of shop and wait for a couple to come in range. And I’d leave a full set of clothes piled up in the middle of the floor and when they walk in I’d yell that somebody was just standing RIGHT THERE! And there was this flash of light and he’s gone! Then, I lean over and look through the clothes for the wallet, watch… > > Have a video that catches the exact moment they figure out that he’s been Raptured and they’re still there. Mount that on YouTube, totally viral! make sure you include a turban ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20576 "2015-03-29T14:27:52Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Fair enough. But that also applies to black individuals, which is why cabbies can get away with driving right on by without risk of punishment. And that is wrong. Cab drivers who practice such discrimination should be subject to legal sanction. If they aren’t, that is an injustice in our society. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20577 "2015-03-29T15:46:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > [Detroit cab drivers are refusing to pick up in neighborhoods](http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/detroit-cab-drivers-are-refusing-to-pick-up-in-neighborhoods/26443740) > > [http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-12-13/news/1995347105\_1\_black-neighborhoods-delivery-people-pizza-delivery](http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-12-13/news/1995347105_1_black-neighborhoods-delivery-people-pizza-delivery) > > [http://www.sptimes.com/2007/07/25/news\_pf/Neighborhoodtimes/Crime\_turns\_pizzamake.shtml](http://www.sptimes.com/2007/07/25/news_pf/Neighborhoodtimes/Crime_turns_pizzamake.shtml) These cites may support a point, but it’s not any that you’re making. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20578 "2015-03-29T15:52:29Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Fair enough. But that also applies to black individuals, which is why cabbies can get away with driving right on by without risk of punishment. Cabbies can get away with this because it’d be virtually impossible to prosecute a case. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20579 "2015-03-29T15:56:09Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > CNN explains the law accurately. Key passage: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/politics/indiana-religous-freedom-explainer/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/27/politics/indiana-religous-freedom-explainer/index.html) > > So basically we can call it the “Making liberals keep their promises” Act. If you don’t like gay weddings, you don’t have to participate. That’s a bad law, then. If you offer services as a baker, florist, planner, etc., you can’t (or shouldn’t be able to) discriminate based on sexual orientation. Plan only Christian weddings, if you want, but you have to plan them regardless of the gender of the participants. That’s not “making liberals keep their promises”, that’s “trying to sidestep civil rights”. If you believe they shouldn’t have to bake cakes or arrange flowers or plan ceremonies for interracial couples, or Jewish couples, then you might be okay with this. I’m not okay with that – and if they can’t refuse interracial couples, then they shouldn’t be able to refuse gay couples. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20580 "2015-03-29T16:18:10Z")
Once again **adaher** takes umbrage with something being called a stupid Republican idea and blows up this thread with shoddily defended rantings … dude, you’ve been shown multiple times the definition of “public accommodation” is NOT limited to a physical place. Give it up. This whole RFRA thing reminds me of a tweet I saw the other day. “I’m getting married for the fifth time, to the wife of a neighbor that I got pregnant and ruined their marriage. Can you bake me a wedding cake?” “Are you gay?” “Nope.” “Coming right up!” Seriously, you never hear of bakers or florists or wedding planners turning down weddings that violate all kinds of religious principles, but make the wedding between a same-sex couple and suddenly their scruples are offended. I say use the RFRA to make these folks walk the talk they’re spouting - I doubt any of them would stay in business very long if they were truly following the religious strictures they claim. Also, about **adaher’s** claim of liberals “lying” about “forcing” people to violate their religious principles … if you choose to start a business in the wedding industry (and it is indeed an industry. My daughter got married two years ago and I know!), you have to know what you’re getting into. If same-sex marriage is legal in your state, you either agree to work with same-sex couples or you find another line of work, one that doesn’t offend you personally. Being gay is not a “religion” - you don’t get a pass because you only do Christian weddings. Practicing your religion does NOT give you free reign to discriminate against those you don’t agree with. Think about it - would Jesus be turning people away? If He wouldn’t do it, what makes you think you’re being all moral and holy by being offended and looking down your noses at others? Reminds me of something else I saw online this week. Jesus says, “Love one another as I have loved you.” The crowd responds, “What if they’re gay? Or worship different gods?” Jesus responds, “Did I fucking stutter?” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/20581 "2015-03-29T16:30:26Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Not to butt in to this fascinating debate, but … > > I do agree with his dislike of schools being “workforce development for the needs of corporations”. It was a noble try. If it’s any comfort, I read your link, and wonder when the purpose of a public school was to be “a ministry of the church to make sure new immigrants could read the scriptures,” but I don’t live in Michigan. Centers for “workforce development for the needs of corporations” actually seems closer to the mark. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=1028) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=1030)