# Stupid Republican idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897 "2009-03-26T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1375
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27482 "2016-02-18T18:46:37Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > There also appears to be no evidence this guy identifies as Republican. So if lance wants to play devils advocate could everyone take this topic to another thread? Yes, that’s probably appropriate. Sorry to hijack. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27483 "2016-02-18T19:11:38Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So why have separate locker rooms at all? Simple, because the market demands it. I’m not against separate locker rooms, but there’s a sliding scale of importance here where separating people by outward gender isn’t the most important thing anymore, nor should it be the only thing we’re looking at when deciding how to do it. My kid would understand that there are transgendered people in the world, and they will be taught that not everyone is the same on the outside as the inside. Like me, I would hope they know that the right of free expression, especially of one’s identity, takes precedent over feelings of discomfort. Rape, assault, harassment, etc. are all still illegal, whether done by a man or woman, or a man that looks like a woman, or a woman that looks like a man. I think you want to assume that because I would tell someone to “get over it” on one thing, that I must extend that to every aspect of every issue? That’s not only ignorant and stupid, but its a pretty fucking low and hateful way of thinking. Try restricting what I said to the topic at hand > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Sure, but this one has so many loopholes, and brings up so many new problems and questions, that you could drive a truck through it. As this guy is proving. It reminds me of conservatives claiming there’s voter fraud, and then going out and proving it by committing voter fraud. This guy is a troll, a shithead, and one guy. Until this happens more, I don’t think we need to do anything about the law at all. The rights of transgendered people should be stronger than what one asshole can do to it. We should not react to this guy by placing additional demands on transgendered people to prove their identity. Instead, we should make an example of him, throw him in jail, and charge him for harassment. And when he claims he’s a man identifying himself as a woman, prosecutors should show a history of him living as a man with no evidence whatsoever that he ever, at any time, claimed to be transgendered, and we’ll end up with one moron in jail for harassing women instead of reducing trans rights. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Please refrain from emotional outbursts. I am trying to explore this issue and challenge opinions, and you can handle it. I am not naive either. That was directed towards octopus > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I didn’t say I oppose this law. This was also directed towards octopus > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > How is that any different from telling your daughter that the person with male genitals in the locker room above is really a woman? Because in one case it would be correct and the other would not > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I am not a conservative. Octopus ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27484 "2016-02-18T20:26:35Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Why is the point dumb? > > Who are you to say he isn’t a woman or doesn’t identify as one? > > If this is about the freedom to identify as a gender and use the locker rooms without the burden of which genitals you have or how you look or dress, how can we tell him he’s wrong? > > Or is gender strictly defined by how one dresses or appears? Isn’t it strange to assert the freedom to have a gender regardless of genitals or chromosomes and then turn around and demand that it be defined by social norms related to clothing and hairstyle? > > Would a female who identifies as a woman, but looks and dresses just like a man, be a problem in a women’s locker room? My nephew is transitioning from female to male. While the genitals are still female, he sports a beard and has a deep voice due to hormone treatment. I imagine if he were to use the ladies room any women in there would be alarmed and I imagine he would be mortified if he were forced to do so. He is legally male as of a few months ago. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27485 "2016-02-18T20:37:49Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > My nephew is transitioning from female to male. While the genitals are still female, he sports a beard and has a deep voice due to hormone treatment. I imagine if he were to use the ladies room any women in there would be alarmed and I imagine he would be mortified if he were forced to do so. He is legally male as of a few months ago. What about a locker room where he was changing clothes? That’s the example I was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27486 "2016-02-18T20:44:38Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > Simple, because the market demands it. But I could just as easily say the market demands that transgender people use the bathroom or locker room of their genital sex! > [@](#): > > Like me, I would hope they know that the right of free expression, especially of one’s identity, takes precedent over feelings of discomfort. Sure, but again, why couldn’t we say the same about abolishing gender-segregated bathrooms and locker rooms altogether? > [@](#): > > Rape, assault, harassment, etc. are all still illegal, whether done by a man or woman, or a man that looks like a woman, or a woman that looks like a man. I think you want to assume that because I would tell someone to “get over it” on one thing, that I must extend that to every aspect of every issue? That’s not only ignorant and stupid, but its a pretty fucking low and hateful way of thinking. Try restricting what I said to the topic at hand No, YOU stick to the topic, because that IS the topic. If you are going to go around telling people to just “get over” their feelings about privacy and gender and all that, you can’t just turn around and expect them to assert other privacy rights. You have to be logically consistent. > [@](#): > > It reminds me of conservatives claiming there’s voter fraud, and then going out and proving it by committing voter fraud. This guy is a troll, a shithead, and one guy. Until this happens more, I don’t think we need to do anything about the law at all. You sure as hell will have to do something about it if he wins in court. > [@](#): > > The rights of transgendered people should be stronger than what one asshole can do to it. We should not react to this guy by placing additional demands on transgendered people to prove their identity. Instead, we should make an example of him, throw him in jail, and charge him for harassment. And when he claims he’s a man identifying himself as a woman, prosecutors should show a history of him living as a man with no evidence whatsoever that he ever, at any time, claimed to be transgendered, and we’ll end up with one moron in jail for harassing women instead of reducing trans rights. So what’s the legal definition of woman here? Is it in the law? How does this guy not fit it? This is about the law and its application, not your personal feelings. This guy may be violating the law, but he may also be exposing its flaws. > [@](#): > > Because in one case it would be correct and the other would not Nice circular argument. If someone says they are a woman, they are a woman. That’s the premise. Who are you to tell someone they aren’t the gender they say they are? Now, if the law has found a way around that, great. But I doubt it, and I doubt it has been tested. Stop pretending this is easy. Re: octopus - sorry, I read to fast. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27487 "2016-02-18T21:24:42Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > What about a locker room where he was changing clothes? That’s the example I was talking about. This is hypothetical as he’s not a locker room type person, but I imagine he would use the men’s locker room but change his pants in a private booth or toilet stall. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27488 "2016-02-18T21:30:57Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > But I could just as easily say the market demands that transgender people use the bathroom or locker room of their genital sex! You could, but that will conflict with other things we should take into account, namely that of personal liberty and civil rights. Those usually trump whatever market forces people want to take into account. So long as it doesn’t though, people are free to use market demand, within reason, to cater to certain groups. You have to imagine the whole picture and not just look at pieces of it. I’m not against capitalism when its not harmful. I’m fine with places like Curves which only cater to women, and fine with the NAACP which caters to blacks. For the same reason, I think right now, there is tremendous market forces to not seem like a bigot and most businesses and local governments know that the trend is towards inclusiveness with respect to discriminated genders and religions and other minorities. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Sure, but again, why couldn’t we say the same about abolishing gender-segregated bathrooms and locker rooms altogether? Speaking generally, change moves slowly. There are a lot of things that are wrong and its easier to accomplish the goal of transforming America to a better, more inclusive one if we push for things slowly rather than all at once. With respect to making unisex bathrooms and locker rooms, I don’t think there is anyone is seriously pushing for that. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > No, YOU stick to the topic, because that IS the topic. If you are going to go around telling people to just “get over” their feelings about privacy and gender and all that, you can’t just turn around and expect them to assert other privacy rights. You have to be logically consistent. What you can’t seem to be able to understand is there are some things the government should force people to draw the line at and some things we can leave to people themselves. That was the point. Its not “you draw the line here therefore you must have a line draw everywhere”, which is a semi-slippery slope argument you are going down. I can love apples but hate oranges, I don’t have to love or hate both just because they are both fruit. For the same reason, I can tell my kid to get over discomfort at sharing a bathroom with trans people but take their concerns seriously if they are being harassed. Two different topics here, I’m keeping them separate while you seem to want to pretend anything that has to do with sex and bathrooms are of the same topic. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > You sure as hell will have to do something about it if he wins in court. No gain without risk. I’m afraid the atmosphere is so toxic around this subject that it was bound to have people eventually testing the boundaries, or innocent people mistaken for assholes. That doesn’t mean the law is bad, that doesn’t mean the desire to help trans people is bad, and that doesn’t mean we have to start hurting people again by forcing them into what we think is the correct bathroom > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So what’s the legal definition of woman here? Is it in the law? How does this guy not fit it? This is about the law and its application, not your personal feelings. This guy may be violating the law, but he may also be exposing its flaws. I don’t know, that’s up to the state. From the story though, it sounds like this guy was trying to make a point. I’m not worried about guys like him, not that much anyway. For someone who really wants to harass or peep at someone else, they don’t have to go under the cover of this law, some makeup and a wig would do better. > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Nice circular argument. Its only circular if you assume one argument leads to the other. It doesn’t. Consider for a second that there is a right and a wrong on this issue and that I’m right. What would you suggest I say, that I’m wrong? Or that I lie to placate your argument? Assume for a second that you believe there are actual transgendered people in the world and this guy isn’t one. What do you want me to say? > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > If someone says they are a woman, they are a woman. That’s the premise. Who are you to tell someone they aren’t the gender they say they are? There’s a limit to simply saying it when it comes into conflict with others. In this case, the guy shows no other characteristic of being a trans woman. Lies exist, you know. We can assume he’s lying based on the information we have. Now what you seem to want to say is, how can I say he’s lying when I don’t question others who claim to be trans. If that’s all you wanted to ask, you should have asked it instead of dancing around the subject > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Now, if the law has found a way around that, great. But I doubt it, and I doubt it has been tested. So test it, I don’t know what you expect anyone to say. If this guy is picked up, it would obviously be a test of this law > [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Stop pretending this is easy. You must have been arguing with someone else who made that claim ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27489 "2016-02-18T21:56:33Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Who are you to decide what is “necessary” for a change of gender? The law is the entity that is competent to make that decision. > [@](#): > > If you can’t require a woman to have female genitals, how can you turn around and say a woman can’t have a beard, or wear “men’s” clothes? I didn’t say any of those things. You have the most astonishing difficulties actually reading what’s in front of you. > [@](#): > > . . . I understand your point about men doing it just to sneak in the girl’s room. But it does touch on the larger point - who decides if the “transformation” is enough? Who decides what a man or woman is, if we can’t even require it to involve actual sex? We can, through the law, require a sincere and dedicated, profound and pervasive declaration of the new sexual identity, which is practiced consistently and maintained permanently. Just saying, “Well, on Tuesday I felt like a woman, but it’s Friday now, and I’m pretty sure I’m a man again” is not going to be tolerated. The law has the right, power, and duty to enforce against this. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27490 "2016-02-18T22:02:46Z")
Loath as I am to interrupt this thread hijack, but can we really discuss a stupid Republican idea? [Donald Trump says he knows who really knocked down the World Trade Center, and he’s going to tell us as soon as he’s elected President.](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/02/18/trump-pledges-to-reveal-who-really-knocked-down-the-world-trade-center-video/) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27491 "2016-02-18T22:12:23Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Loath as I am to interrupt this thread hijack, but can we really discuss a stupid Republican idea? > > [Donald Trump says he knows who really knocked down the World Trade Center, and he’s going to tell us as soon as he’s elected President.](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/02/18/trump-pledges-to-reveal-who-really-knocked-down-the-world-trade-center-video/) Probably one of his construction companies looking to build a limo parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27492 "2016-02-18T22:21:02Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Loath as I am to interrupt this thread hijack, but can we really discuss a stupid Republican idea? > > [Donald Trump says he knows who really knocked down the World Trade Center, and he’s going to tell us as soon as he’s elected President.](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/02/18/trump-pledges-to-reveal-who-really-knocked-down-the-world-trade-center-video/) I have the theory that besides authoritarians, Trump is going for the Discordianist vote. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27493 "2016-02-18T22:46:31Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Loath as I am to interrupt this thread hijack, but can we really discuss a stupid Republican idea? > > [Donald Trump says he knows who really knocked down the World Trade Center, and he’s going to tell us as soon as he’s elected President.](http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/02/18/trump-pledges-to-reveal-who-really-knocked-down-the-world-trade-center-video/) Who the hell thinks the Iraqis did this? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27494 "2016-02-18T22:48:09Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I have the theory that besides authoritarians, Trump is going for the Discordianist vote. Donald Trump is the Golden Worm! hail Eris fnord ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27495 "2016-02-18T23:08:17Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > I’d tell her if that person truly identifies as a female, then my kid will just have to get used to it. There are worse things than being glanced at, and my kid will not grow up ashamed of their body. But I don’t have to teach my kid how to identify transgendered people, I just have to teach them how to identify assholes. > > The retardedness comes from idiots trying to push the boundaries of the law. Any law, unless went over fine-toothed comb by a dozen lawyers, has loopholes. A free and open society has many opportunities for people to abuse these, but they are generally rare enough not to warrant laws covering them. If this was Iraq, we’d probably have laws preventing one from leaving their backpacks in parks or on buses, for fear that it would be a bomb. There’s no law against that because we don’t have people trying to bomb others every day. > > Likewise, your naive spittle directed towards the transgendered would force [this man](http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/130822141327-chaz-bono-dwts-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg) or [this woman](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Laverne_Cox_by_Sachyn_Mital.jpg) to use the locker room of their birth gender. How about you tell us what you will tell your daughter when [this man](http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2186303.1429118850!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/menshealth16n-5-web.jpg) is changing besides her in the locker room, or using the next stall? “Hey little octopus, don’t worry about her, she’s really a woman, just ignore the muscular build, the facial hair, and the obvious penis. Remember an operation doesn’t turn you into the opposite gender!” > > Its not liberals who will have to answer uncomfortable questions, but moronic conservatives like you. Our kids won’t grow up to be weirded out by sex or ashamed of their bodies like your kids. For all the conservative blather about men being in women’s locker rooms or bathrooms, they forget that plenty of people have transitioned already and there will be, if your version of the law passes, lots of butch, mannish guys who have had surgeries showering next to your precious little flowers. And you asked for it to be that way Your kids? The ones who aren’t torn apart as fetuses are going to be working for my kids. You also assume too much. I have 0 problem with transgendered, homosexual, bisexual, or polygamists. I believe people’s sexual orientation is a function of their brain and nothing they could have chose. I teach my kids to look at issues rationally. When it comes to topics like taxes I present both sides. Mostly I teach them about the shared benefits to society of things like roads, fire departments, public schools etc. I highly doubt you do a better more impartial job with your own. Unintended consequences of stupid leftist thinkers are what many on the right warn about. I don’t like the stupid consequences but with 1/2 the population at or below median IQ and 1/2 of the remainder voting for more and more central control stupid consequences are a foregone conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27496 "2016-02-18T23:13:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Glenn Beck’s God is an asshole. Kiss the face of God, Glenn! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27497 "2016-02-18T23:18:28Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Probably one of his construction companies looking to build a limo parking lot. How big is the parking lot? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27498 "2016-02-18T23:21:21Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How big is the parking lot? It’s YUUUGE!! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27499 "2016-02-18T23:34:29Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > It’s YUUUGE!! You owe me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27500 "2016-02-18T23:46:14Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I have the theory that besides authoritarians, Trump is going for the Discordianist vote. We’ll have to wait 'til tomorrow and see how he takes his hot dog to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/27501 "2016-02-18T23:52:32Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > We’ll have to wait 'til tomorrow and see how he takes his hot dog to be sure. Before he consumes it he always inscribes upon it, “To the fairest.” In ketchup. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=1374) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=1376)