# Stupid Republican idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897 "2009-03-26T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1512
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30222 "2016-07-20T18:27:36Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > What type of lack of knowledge? > > I didn’t specify any type, just less. > > Less knowledge of the ins and outs of racism - how to be a racist, so to speak, how to talk like one and act like one - is what I’m talking about here. And that’s a good thing. It doesn’t mean one is completely ignorant about it. > > More important, as I said, is the ability to go through life without seeing every little thing in terms of race, no matter how innocent. It’s not “every little thing” – it’s the great big obvious fucking things, like “white elevator”, or “white bathroom”, or “white water fountain”. This is a great big obvious thing. If it’s innocent, then that’s fine – the innocent doer of the deed will have a chance to learn from their mistake when they are criticized for it. If someone calls them “Racist!”, then I think that’s inappropriate and I’d say “they’re not necessarily a racist, let’s just explain why it was a mistake and give them a chance to learn from their mistake”. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30223 "2016-07-20T18:28:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Getting criticized isn’t the end of the world. Everyone screws up sometimes, and sometimes a screw up can be offensive or inappropriate for various reasons. Good people will take reasonable criticism and learn from it. Assholes will clam up and refuse to budge. I think there’s an excluded middle there where asshole trolls say “you said white milk, I’m offended and you’re a racist” and the impotent wimp says “reasonable criticism I apologize and will learn from my mistake.” ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30224 "2016-07-20T18:32:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Where did I say they were racist or evil? Deserving criticism doesn’t mean they’re racist or evil necessarily. But they still deserve to be criticized. For what? > [@](#): > > I think it’s very likely there were multiple people within the chain that made this decision, and who later saw the results of this decision, who should have known better and either ignored it because they didn’t care or because they were too ignorant. That’s absurd. You’re saying someone actually looked at that sign and said “Hey, that’s racist - anyone who sees that is going to get mad and might even post it on the Internet, further harming the GOP’s reputation. But I don’t care.” > [@](#): > > You misunderstand me – I’m saying jokes are different than the history of racism. It’s no problem if people don’t get racist jokes, but everyone should know about the history of segregation and racism such that the “white elevator” thing would be very obviously inappropriate. I was just using the racist joke thing to demonstrate my point about ignorance. Sure, people should know about segregation. Doesn’t mean they should see every little thing in terms of the history of race. That’s the “political correctness run amok” thing the Republicans like to complain about. > [@](#): > > To clarify, I wouldn’t consider stuff like calling black people monkeys and apes “jokes”, considering the history of their association with brutality, oppression, and dehumanization. Those (and similar rhetoric) were rhetorical weapons used in conjunction with brutality to oppress. Ignorance of the very common rhetoric like this associated with brutality is not something that it’s “good” to be ignorant about. Good example. What if someone were to accidentally, innocently associate a black person with a monkey? It’s quite possible that my children will grow up never knowing that such an association was ever made as a racist attack in the past, and could make that mistake. I wouldn’t get mad at them for not knowing either. I’d educate them about it, but I’d be relieved that they didn’t know in the first place. > [@](#): > > I think there were numerous people involved, and who later saw the sign, who should have known better. But I don’t care about the intent (since it’s impossible to determine without mind-reading skills) – I’m not interested in bashing the guy, or calling him racist or evil. I’d say “hey dude, you screwed up and this is inappropriate, and here’s why”, with an explanation. He should feel embarrassed about it --but that doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world. He made a mistake due to ignorance and lack of sensitivity, and everyone makes this kind of mistake sometimes. He should learn why it was a mistake and go forward with the understanding necessary to avoid it in the future. I don’t think it’s fair to say “lack of sensitivity” but otherwise fine. That’s better than “severely castigate” or whatever you said before. > [@](#): > > Or maybe he’s an asshole, or a racist, and he’d just ignore it. In any of these cases, the criticism is appropriate and warranted, and the same goes for all the folks who had a part in the decision, and who reviewed it later, and who walked through and didn’t notice a problem. No, I doubt he is. Here’s why - a racist would know what he was doing, and that it could get him in trouble, so he’d avoid it. Racists who want to be racist either just come out and say what they mean, or they hide it entirely. They don’t let ambiguous signs go through the approval process while giggling. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30225 "2016-07-20T18:37:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not “every little thing” – it’s the great big obvious fucking things, like “white elevator”, or “white bathroom”, or “white water fountain”. This is a great big obvious thing. If it’s innocent, then that’s fine – the innocent doer of the deed will have a chance to learn from their mistake when they are criticized for it. If someone calls them “Racist!”, then I think that’s inappropriate and I’d say “they’re not necessarily a racist, let’s just explain why it was a mistake and give them a chance to learn from their mistake”. It’s not a big obvious thing though. Water fountain and bathroom, sure, but I don’t recall ever seeing a “whites only elevator” sign in the history books. I think that makes it a little different. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30226 "2016-07-20T18:42:24Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > It’s not a big obvious thing though. Water fountain and bathroom, sure, but I don’t recall ever seeing a “whites only elevator” sign in the history books. I think that makes it a little different. [http://www.elevatorworld.com/blogs/whites-only-segregated-elevators-during-jim-crow/](http://www.elevatorworld.com/blogs/whites-only-segregated-elevators-during-jim-crow/) > [@](#): > > In 1903, elevators began to be segregated in Atlanta, Georgia. African-Americans could not ride a building’s passenger elevators — they were relegated to the freight elevators, as if they were cargo. Whites were free to ride the freight elevators if they wanted to. Ironically, some buildings in Atlanta allowed African-Americans to go down but not up.[iv] Surely the symbolism was not lost on them. > **[The New York Times - Breaking News, US News, World News and Videos](https://www.nytimes.com?res=9B01E7D8113EE733A25753C3A9629C946797D6CF)** > > Live news, investigations, opinion, photos and video by the journalists of The New York Times from more than 150 countries around the world. Subscribe for coverage of U.S. and international news, politics, business, technology, science, health, arts,... EDIT: Some if not most elevators required operators to run. No signs needed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30227 "2016-07-20T18:45:56Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > For what? For posting a sign that hearkens back to segregation, even if it was unintentional. > [@](#): > > That’s absurd. You’re saying someone actually looked at that sign and said “Hey, that’s racist - anyone who sees that is going to get mad and might even post it on the Internet, further harming the GOP’s reputation. But I don’t care.” I think something like that is entirely possible, especially when it comes to the Trump campaign. I think many Trump supporters think throwing things in the face of the “PC crowd” or whatever they call non-asshole people who prefer not to offend is a good and positive thing. I’m not saying that this is the case, just that it’s possible. > [@](#): > > I was just using the racist joke thing to demonstrate my point about ignorance. > > Sure, people should know about segregation. Doesn’t mean they should see every little thing in terms of the history of race. That’s the “political correctness run amok” thing the Republicans like to complain about. I don’t either. Glad we agree. We might agree on what counts as “every little thing”. > [@](#): > > Good example. What if someone were to accidentally, innocently associate a black person with a monkey? If they’re an adult American who didn’t grow up in the cave, then they should be criticized and educated as to why that’s so hurtful. It really is very hurtful – I’ve seen it first hand. Someone should feel a bit of embarrassment/shame/guilt for having made such a mistake and hurting someone (or potentially hurting someone) – that will help make sure they avoid it in the future and can help others avoid it. And in modern American society, I don’t believe it’s possible to miss learning about this kind of thing without willful ignorance or avoidance of the topic, and deliberately avoiding learning about the shameful history of racism in America, including these sort of medium-sized details, is a bad thing that should be criticized (again – not the end of the world, but a negative thing). > [@](#): > > It’s quite possible that my children will grow up never knowing that such an association was ever made as a racist attack in the past, and could make that mistake. I wouldn’t get mad at them for not knowing either. I’d educate them about it, but I’d be relieved that they didn’t know in the first place. I wouldn’t be relieved (don’t have kids yet – when I do, barring some catastrophe, they will be considered black in America) at all. I’d feel that I failed them in some way. Your relief means that they are more likely to hurt someone inadvertently – why would you be relieved about that? There aren’t a million little things like “monkey” and “ape” for this category – there’s just a handful. It’s really not hard to learn about this stuff and avoid 99.9% of the mistakes that lead to majorly hurt feelings. > [@](#): > > I don’t think it’s fair to say “lack of sensitivity” but otherwise fine. That’s better than “severely castigate” or whatever you said before. I said a “sharp lesson”. If we disagree, then fine – I might favor a sharper lesson than you for this purpose. > [@](#): > > No, I doubt he is. Here’s why - a racist would know what he was doing, and that it could get him in trouble, so he’d avoid it. Racists who want to be racist either just come out and say what they mean, or they hide it entirely. They don’t let ambiguous signs go through the approval process while giggling. Strongly disagree. I’ve personally known racists (whether they admitted it or not) who loved to use little indirect offensive hints like this, just to hurt feelings and be jerks, without going into direct and straight-forward bigotry. Add in the Trump campaign, and the likelihood goes up, in my judgment. I’m not saying this is what happened, just that it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30228 "2016-07-20T18:48:18Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > It’s not a big obvious thing though. Water fountain and bathroom, sure, but I don’t recall ever seeing a “whites only elevator” sign in the history books. I think that makes it a little different. [Allow me to help you learn](http://www.elevatorworld.com/blogs/whites-only-segregated-elevators-during-jim-crow/). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30229 "2016-07-20T19:02:24Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > It’s not a big obvious thing though. Water fountain and bathroom, sure, but I don’t recall ever seeing a “whites only elevator” sign in the history books. Wow, so you imagine it was only drinking fountains and bathrooms that were segregated?! Did you actually **read** any of the history book you mention, besides just looking at the pictures? There were signs specifying “White Only” entrances, “White Only” waiting rooms, “White Only” swimming pools, “White Only” theater seats, “White Only” taxicabs, “White Only” restaurants, you name it. (ETA: and as **iiandyiiii** just pointed out, elevators too.) And no, ignorance about racism does not demonstrate how non-racist you are. It just demonstrates how complacent you are about being able to get away with living in a privilege-bubble where racial discrimination is something you don’t even notice. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30230 "2016-07-20T20:36:43Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > . . . Liberals support the selling, commodification, and objectification of women’s bodies in porn, prostitution, mass media marketing (TV/movies/commercials), and beauty culture. They also generally encourage women to be as promiscuous as possible, whether it’s called free love or no strings attached. This is all called empowering, but it’s really just repackaged patriarchy. Absurd calumny. (This is the Pit: fucking lies!) We oppose the banning of porn and other advertising content. Opposing a prohibition on something is far from supporting the consumption of it. And far more liberals approve of moderation in sexual activity than would ever want women to be “as promiscuous as possible.” That’s total bullshit. > [@](#): > > You’re right. Religious conservatives want women barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen. Hence, they think women are _private property_, not public. So it’s not backwards. Anti-choice legislation makes a woman’s body into a public accomodation, where she is forced to harbor an unwanted fetus. She would be denied the usual private-property rights, most specifically of eviction of an unwanted tenant. You got it backwards again, plus you’re a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30231 "2016-07-20T21:40:39Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > It’s not a big obvious thing though. Water fountain and bathroom, sure, but I don’t recall ever seeing a “whites only elevator” sign in the history books. I think that makes it a little different. Somewhere out there on youtube is a vid in which Obama talks about an incident in his youth when an older white got off the elevator a floor early when he was on the elevator, and then took a later elevator so as to avoid having to be on the same elevator as him, a black person. Sign or not, the racism remains. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30232 "2016-07-20T23:06:52Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > pfffffffffffffffffffffft > > If Trump were an MLP character, he’d be one of the big villains who appears in the two-part season opener, where he marches in, decrees himself “Emperor Trot”, and declares that Ponyville is going to be destroyed by Zecora’s people unless everypony lets him kick the others out. > > The second part would be all about the Mane Six teaming up with Zecora to prove that they’re stronger together than they are divided and his apologizing to Princess Celestia for the error of his ways. FTR, my daughters are all adults, but thanks to them I still understood all of that. ☹ > [@running\_coach](#): > > [Page not found – Elevator World](http://www.elevatorworld.com/blogs/whites-only-segregated-elevators-during-jim-crow/) Back in the day, I subscribed to Elevator World, but the industry has its ups and downs. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30233 "2016-07-20T23:07:58Z")
I can’t believe you guys won’t just let **lance strongarm** have the last word so we can stop seeing him endlessly reply to every one of your posts. He’s a fucking moron, why are you engaging with him? In more serious news, those calls [for Hillary’s execution apparently weren’t a one-off phenomenon](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/21/us/politics/hillary-clinton-rnc-attacks.html?_r=0). From a long article about the levels to which this party has sunk during the convention: [Quote=The New York Times] Hillary Clinton’s responsibility for the deaths of Americans in Benghazi, Libya, in 2012 has been a regular topic of conversation among Republicans, and on Tuesday Al Baldasaro, a delegate for Mr. Trump from New Hampshire who advises him on veterans issues, suggested that she had committed treason. “This whole thing disgusts me — Hillary Clinton should be put in the firing line and shot for treason,” Mr. Baldasaro said on The Kuhner Report radio show. Mrs. Clinton has not been charged with committing any crimes. Mr. Trump has previously described Mr. Baldasaro, a state representative from New Hampshire who was on the convention floor on Tuesday night, as his favorite veteran. Mr. Baldasaro had no regrets about the remark on Wednesday, telling WMUR of Manchester, N.H., that he would also be satisfied with other forms of execution. “As far as I’m concerned, it is treason and the penalty for treason is the firing squad." [/quote] The venom and violence in today’s Republican party is frightening. (Also, the _NYTimes_ should be ashamed of the way they phrased that first line. “Clinton’s responsibility” for the deaths in Benghazi should have been “Allegations of Clinton’s responsibility.” Egregiously bad editing there. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30234 "2016-07-20T23:10:35Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > FTR, my daughters are all adults, but thanks to them I still understood all of that. ☹ > > Back in the day, I subscribed to Elevator World, but the industry has its ups and downs. It really only worked out for those who got in on the ground floor. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30235 "2016-07-20T23:25:16Z")
Yeah, the rest kind of got the shaft to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30236 "2016-07-20T23:29:10Z")
Only really need three, but I’ll put in all six, just in case. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30237 "2016-07-20T23:57:06Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > It really only worked out for those who got in on the ground floor. Yeah, well, there was an extended time when I was unemployed, before Talking Bird learned how to imitate the phone ringing so he could laugh at me falling while trying to pick it up. Cockatiels are evil and my daughters haven’t always been adults. Imagine the joy of driving around with a Twilight Sparkle sticker. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30238 "2016-07-21T00:02:43Z")
Know nothing at all about them, but that one looks positively hostile and aggressive. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30239 "2016-07-21T00:08:58Z")
He’s a monster, but our Collie loved him because he could talk and trimmed her whiskers. She recognized his name to be Talking Bird. The tragedy is that he will probably outlive me, laughing all the way. It’s one thing to be bested by a human… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30240 "2016-07-21T00:45:24Z")
A crow can run out into traffic, put an uncracked nut in the path of a car, and grab the good stuff when its smashed. Even at ten, my kid was having a hard time with that! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/30241 "2016-07-21T01:09:54Z")
Face it: The dinos won. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=1511) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=1513)