# Stupid Republican idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897 "2009-03-26T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1791
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35802 "2017-11-28T02:55:54Z")
Serious question for the lawyerly-types - could the WaPo sue Veritas for fraud? Could a DA charge them with attempting to perpetrate a public fraud? What if it could be proved that Moore’s campaign or someone else paid them to do it? Does that rise to the level of a criminal conspiracy to commit fraud? ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35803 "2017-11-28T03:48:24Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Serious question for the lawyerly-types - could the WaPo sue Veritas for fraud? Could a DA charge them with attempting to perpetrate a public fraud? What if it could be proved that Moore’s campaign or someone else paid them to do it? Does that rise to the level of a criminal conspiracy to commit fraud? Veritas has probably taken a bunch of legal advice before setting these things up. Because if Phillips was coming down from New York to the DC area for the interviews, the closest drive for her would have been the Maryland suburbs, Westfield Wheaton or the Columbia Mall or something. But it was carefully arranged for Tysons Corner and Alexandria. And I am guessing that’s because Maryland is one of the handful of two-party consent states for audio recordings and publishing their sting could have gotten them sued for wiretapping. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35804 "2017-11-28T19:05:18Z")
My favorite part of the article. Phillips is the fake accuser McCrummen is the Washington Post Reporter. > [@](#): > > Again, Phillips had arrived early and was waiting for McCrummen, her purse resting on the table. When McCrummen put her purse near Phillips’s purse to block a possible camera, Phillips moved hers. > > The Post video reporters sat separately, unnoticed, at an adjacent table. Any takers as to the over under of some conservative new agency report “Lying Washington post prints front page story about a Moore accuser they knew was fake.” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35805 "2017-11-28T19:24:03Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Serious question for the lawyerly-types - could the WaPo sue Veritas for fraud? Could a DA charge them with attempting to perpetrate a public fraud? What if it could be proved that Moore’s campaign or someone else paid them to do it? Does that rise to the level of a criminal conspiracy to commit fraud? “Fraud” has a very exact definition. > [@](#): > > Outside the courtroom, accusing someone of fraud is generally synonymous with calling that person a cheat or a swindler. Sometimes this casual definition of fraud will overlap with the legal definition, but more often it does not. The law does not consider every act of dishonesty to amount to actionable fraud. According to [this blog](https://www.virginiabusinesslitigationlawyer.com/2009/11/fraud-what-it-is-and-what-it-i.html), the following elements must be established in Virginia. > [@](#): > > Under Virginia law, a party alleging fraud must prove by clear and convincing evidence (1) a false representation, (2) of a present, material fact, (3) made intentionally and knowingly, (4) with intent to mislead, (5) reasonable reliance by the party misled, and (6) resulting damage to him. It seems like (5) and (6) are the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35806 "2017-11-28T19:31:27Z")
Does VA have a “conspiracy to commit fraud” law? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35807 "2017-11-28T20:54:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It seems like (5) and (6) are the problem here. For #6, I don’t think the defendant can get away with it if no damage was actually caused because the victim detected the fraud in progress. In this case, the scum-suckers certainly were attempting to cause harm to the Washington Post, by trying to sucker them into printing a false story, thus harming their reputation. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2017, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35808 "2017-11-28T21:39:05Z")
They believed it! They _totally_ believed that WaPo would fall all over themselves to get this story and print it, toot sweet! They didn’t _know_ their plan was stupid! ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35809 "2017-11-29T02:57:00Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > “Fraud” has a very exact definition. > > According to [this blog](https://www.virginiabusinesslitigationlawyer.com/2009/11/fraud-what-it-is-and-what-it-i.html), the following elements must be established in Virginia. > > It seems like (5) and (6) are the problem here. I could easily see 6 covered by the extra expense WaPo had to go to in investigating the attempted sting. Reporter time is both a direct expense and a lost opportunity cost. I’m curious about 5 though. So, in VA, if I try to con you but you see through it, I’ve committed no crime? In that case, you, **Procrustus** have $3 million waiting for in a Nigerian bank account! Just send me your full legal name, birth date, SSN, and bank account numbers, and I’ll transfer the money to you toot sweet!!! ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35810 "2017-11-29T05:32:36Z")
It’s a small step from this kind of stunt, to paying some woman to say some candidate in a close race molested her when she was underage. We know there are people who would do it for a hundred bucks, let alone a million. We know the Republican leadership has no shame, no ethics, and no shortage of money. We don’t know, but it’s possible, that there are Republicans smart enough to hire someone to do it whose cover wouldn’t be blown with a five minute google search. Heck, Fox News is full of Republicans who say the Dems are doing exactly that in the Roy Moore case. They probably think it’s only fair to do the same. In the current environment, the accused’s denials would likely not be believed, unless he could prove he was in Afghanistan at the time, or something similar. This is the pernicious result of electing Trump, and not throwing rotten vegetables at him every time he lies, which is now almost every time he speaks or writes even in short bursts. Facts no longer matter. The truth no longer matters. How in the world did we get here? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35811 "2017-11-29T10:55:41Z")
Well, it looks like O’Keefe has found [at least one newspaper](https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-has-obtained-exclusive-information-from-jai-1820808638) willing to run his story at face value. 😃 > [@America's Finest News Source](#): > > Unquestionably, this dramatic account required fact-checking of the caliber only The Onion can provide, and while several small inconsistencies emerged—notably, the employer that Ms. Phillips provided us, NFM Lending, had no knowledge of her existence and denied she ever held a position there—the common-sense explanation from Ms. Phillips that she “worked remotely” and that we had “called the wrong branch” quickly put to bed any doubt that would prevent her account’s publication. Similarly, despite timely considerations such as the coming December election in which Mr. Moore will serve as the GOP candidate and the coming Pulitzer Prize nominations for which this story may be eligible, readers can dispel any notion that this journalistic enterprise was rushed to publication. Simply put, The Onion is willing to stake its nearly 252-year history of sterling, unbiased reportage upon the verity of these claims. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35812 "2017-11-29T17:16:49Z")
> [@](#): > > …The Onion is willing to stake its nearly 252-year history of sterling, unbiased reportage upon the verity of these claims. Can confirm, I am 274 years old, and remember it well. It was produced by a fairly common technique known as “printing” which involved sheets of a bio-degradable material called “paper”. It was fashionable to place a copy in one’s belt, to signal that one was up-to-date on what trends were “macaroni” and that one could afford the rather exorbitant price of one bee per copy. It was not uncommon for unscrupulous vendors to double the price without notice, forcing the customer to enquire in advance as to pricing. Hence, the common expression “Two bees or not two bees, that is the question…”. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35813 "2017-11-29T17:34:15Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > I could easily see 6 covered by the extra expense WaPo had to go to in investigating the attempted sting. Reporter time is both a direct expense and a lost opportunity cost. > > I’m curious about 5 though. So, in VA, if I try to con you but you see through it, I’ve committed no crime? > > In that case, you, **Procrustus** have $3 million waiting for in a Nigerian bank account! Just send me your full legal name, birth date, SSN, and bank account numbers, and I’ll transfer the money to you toot sweet!!! Those were the elements for civil fraud. For criminal law, there is always the crime of “attempted” whatever. In civil cases, plaintiffs have to prove damages ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35814 "2017-11-29T20:44:12Z")
Lucian Wintrich, “White House correspondent” for the Gateway Pundit, a pro-trump fake news site, was arrested at the University of Connecticut during his appearance there to spout white nationalist crap when he left the podium and assaulted a woman who had removed some documents from the podium. > **[Conservative speaker arrested at UConn after altercation during 'It's OK to...](https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-uconn-conservative-speaker-lucian-wintrich-arrested-20171128-story.html)** > > A conservative commentator has been arrested at the University of Connecticut after a fight broke out during his speech titled "It's OK To Be White." ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35815 "2017-11-30T01:41:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Can confirm, I am 274 years old, and remember it well. It was produced by a fairly common technique known as “printing” which involved sheets of a bio-degradable material called “paper”. It was fashionable to place a copy in one’s belt, to signal that one was up-to-date on what trends were “macaroni” and that one could afford the rather exorbitant price of one bee per copy. But did you tie an onion to your belt? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35816 "2017-11-30T03:44:51Z")
Roy Moore blames the liberals, gays, transsexuals and lesbians for his troubles. > ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35817 "2017-11-30T03:50:59Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Roy Moore blames the liberals, gays, transsexuals and lesbians for his troubles. > [x.com](https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/936044184452108289) Well, I’m not transsexual or lesbian, but I’m happy to shoulder my share of the blame attributable to liberals. I’m a team player. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35818 "2017-11-30T05:36:35Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I’m a team player. Well, he did call “them” socialists. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35819 "2017-11-30T06:50:42Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Roy Moore blames the liberals, gays, transsexuals and lesbians for his troubles. > [x.com](https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/936044184452108289) Do you think he’ll credit them if he wins? ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35820 "2017-11-30T07:05:27Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Roy Moore blames the liberals, gays, transsexuals and lesbians for his troubles. > [x.com](https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/936044184452108289) Wow… is there _any_ type of minority he didn’t molest or sexually harass? ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/35821 "2017-11-30T08:40:23Z")
> [@AI\_Proofreader](#): > > Wow… is there _any_ type of minority he didn’t molest or sexually harass? Nope. And it’s okay, because that’s in a church. Listening to every tobacco-chewing male voice in that audience muttering with agreement makes me wonder how many DV charges have been given to the congregation. Tax this church as a business, send Roy Boy the bill. Separation of what and what? Conglomeration of stupidity and ignorance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=1790) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=1792)