# Stupid Republican idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897 "2009-03-26T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 259
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5161 "2012-04-15T20:06:19Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So churches can’t be allowed to change their minds? Or their modern members can’t disagree with their great-grandfathers? Where is the chronological cutoff? Never? Assuming that the church is claiming a connection to god, and claiming that that god is unchanging? Never. See, when a church “changes its mind” about doctrine, one of two things is necessarily happening: god is changing the doctrine, or the church is admitting that it had it wrong. The former is impossible if god is unchanging, as the christian religion says he is, while the latter robs the church of any and all credibility it has as a path to god. As such, the doctrine _cannot_ change unless god changes. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5162 "2012-04-15T20:22:46Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Points Equipoise to posts 5081 and 5083. > > Com’on, this thread isn’t even 5,200 posts long. Surely you can keep up with the entire thing! :smack: I am behind. Those were days ago and I only saw Batfish’s post. Teach me to read up until I get to the original. If I’d seen your (and Steve MB’s) posts I would have high-fived. What a great movie! (I’m reading back now and see that I missed out on some serious Republican Stupid and excellent snark about it in the past several days. I love this thread.) ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5163 "2012-04-16T00:36:07Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I’d love to see a clip of him doing so, though, for the delicious ironing. I think his word for word quote [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e59egz0el7c) was “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman”. I wouldn’t have a problem with it if he said “between men and women” because that’s consistent with the practices of the originator of his religion. However I don’t think he gets a pass on the irony of his statements merely because he didn’t explicitly mention religious tradition as part of his justification. I think doctrine, dogma and practices may need to be separated in order to acknowledge this. Church doctrine changes over time: I wouldn’t consider it ironic or hypocritical for a Catholic candidate to support abortion, because it doesn’t contradict the expressed positions of Jesus (from what I can recall), nor his actual practices. It does contradict official Church doctrine though. Alternative definitions of marriage contradict modern LDS doctrine (polygamy, gay marriage) but not the practices of the founders (nor dogma, for obvious reasons - though a Muslim candidate couldn’t replicate the marriages of Muhammad, since he already inserted a special pleading Sura in the Quran). At any rate, if a candidate refuses to acknowledge alternative definitions of marriage, they are implicitly denigrating the marriages of Joseph Smith. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5164 "2012-04-16T03:22:34Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > As such, the doctrine _cannot_ change unless god changes. No, our forefathers may have interpreted it incorrectly. Nobody can fully know the mind of God, blah blah blah. But I grew up Catholic before, during, and after Vatican II, so I was used to not knowing what was accepted doctrine from one day to the next. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5165 "2012-04-16T03:31:05Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > No, our forefathers may have interpreted it incorrectly. Nobody can fully know the mind of God, blah blah blah. But I grew up Catholic before, during, and after Vatican II, so I was used to not knowing what was accepted doctrine from one day to the next. Yeah, those were my Catholic years too, and even many of the priests were confused. I suspect they recruited and bunch of new members, and lost a bunch of traditionalists who couldn’t buy into the changes. IMO, looking back, it’s just another confirmation that the church “believed” whatever the guys at the top believed, or claimed to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5166 "2012-04-16T04:11:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The former is impossible if god is unchanging, as the christian religion says he is, while the latter robs the church of any and all credibility it has as a path to god. Cite that the “christian religion” holds that God is unchanging in all respects? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5167 "2012-04-16T04:13:29Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > No, our forefathers may have interpreted it incorrectly. Nobody can fully know the mind of God, blah blah blah. But I grew up Catholic before, during, and after Vatican II, so I was used to not knowing what was accepted doctrine from one day to the next. I think you may be confusing “doctrine” with specific rituals of practice. Vatican II did not change any doctrine. It changed the rituals we use during the celebration of Mass. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5168 "2012-04-16T04:26:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Cite that the “christian religion” holds that God is unchanging in all respects? But this is kind of about God changing his mind – if God is infallible, why would he change his mind? If God instructs his followers to be polygamists one day and all the sudden that’s out and monogamy is in, then either God was misleading the people either before or after the change, or the church leaders were doing so on claims of revelations for God. Either way does not speak well of the church. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5169 "2012-04-16T04:30:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Vatican II did not change any doctrine. It changed the rituals we use during the celebration of Mass. It was more than that: > **[Second Vatican Council](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council)** > > Nine decrees: > Three declarations: > The Second Ecumenical Council of the Vatican, commonly known as the Second Vatican Council or Vatican II, was the 21st and most recent ecumenical council of the Catholic Church. The council met each autumn from 1962 to 1965 in St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City for sessions of 8 and 12 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5170 "2012-04-16T04:34:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Cite that the “christian religion” holds that God is unchanging in all respects? Well… [Here’s something of some relevance…](http://www.biblestudyguide.org/topical/god-unchanging.htm), with specific Bible verses… [Here’s another reference](http://www.tecmalta.org/tft133.htm) to official doctrine of at least one major denomination… Personally, I’ve always wondered if the “unchanging” nature of God has any philosophical necessity. I once presented a metaphor of God as a mountain: both “the same” for all time (or at least for vast lengths of time) but also constantly changing, as the weather, the climate, the forests, the fields, the wildlife, all are constantly changing. At least one Christian agreed that it was a perfectly valid way of envisioning God. And, of course, the gigantic shift in policy between the Old Testament and the New Testament suggests that God, in fact, did change, and very dramatically indeed! He was born and died, and those are pretty hefty changes! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5171 "2012-04-16T04:38:15Z")
Unless people are arguing that Catholicism is a stupid Republican idea, it belongs in another, incredibly boring, thread. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5172 "2012-04-16T05:51:53Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Unless people are arguing that Catholicism is a stupid Republican idea, it belongs in another, incredibly boring, thread. Then tell the Republicans that the weekend is over and they need to get to work being stupid again! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5173 "2012-04-16T09:59:58Z")
> [@](#): > > torte reform > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What’s that? Is that where your cake layers fall apart while you’re cooling them, and you have to cut them up into a bowl and make a trifle out of it? Well you certainly couldn’t do that with a tort, under the principle of _De minimis non curat lex_. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5174 "2012-04-16T11:07:02Z")
From the Elections board, Mitt Romney [valiantly](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/15/mitt-romney-mothers-welfare-moms_n_1426113.html) came to the defence of Hilary Rosen’s claim, pointing out that the unemployed would be better off with the dignity of work. Presumably including his wife in that category. Guh, while googling news related to Rosen’s comments, I found this [article](http://www.jewishjournal.com/jews_and_mormons/item/rosen_romney_and_respect_39120415/). Looks like that trumpet is a dog-whistle (lesbian activist, indeed). ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5175 "2012-04-16T11:51:18Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What’s that? Is that where your cake layers fall apart while you’re cooling them, and you have to cut them up into a bowl and make a trifle out of it? Ouch. I just was reading here for the first time since I posted that. Tort should have been accepted, so I can’t even blame auto-correct. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5176 "2012-04-16T12:02:02Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Well you certainly couldn’t do that with a tort, under the principle of _De minimis non curat lex_. Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap. Now we have to hunt you down and shoot you. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5177 "2012-04-16T14:05:47Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Then tell the Republicans that the weekend is over and they need to get to work being stupid again! [How about Mitt talking candidly at what was supposed to be a closed door fundraiser.](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/15/11216845-romney-offers-policy-details-at-closed-door-fundraiser?lite) > [@](#): > > “I’m going to take a lot of departments in Washington, and agencies, and combine them. Some eliminate, but I’m probably not going to lay out just exactly which ones are going to go,” Romney said. “Things like Housing and Urban Development, which my dad was head of, that might not be around later. But I’m not going to actually go through these one by one. What I can tell you is, we’ve got far too many bureaucrats. I will send a lot of what happens in Washington back to the states.” > > Asked about the fate of the Department of Education in a potential Romney administration, the former governor suggested it would also face a dramatic restructuring. > > “The Department of Education: I will either consolidate with another agency, or perhaps make it a heck of a lot smaller. I’m not going to get rid of it entirely,” Romney said, explaining that part of his reasoning behind preserving the agency was to maintain a federal role in pushing back against teachers’ unions. Romney added that he learned in his 1994 campaign for Senate that proposing to eliminate the agency was politically volatile. I’d like to start seeing signs that read, “Mitt, let us read the fine print.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5178 "2012-04-16T14:08:56Z")
Nice to know that Mitt is going to strengthen one arm of the government – the union-busting arm. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5179 "2012-04-16T14:19:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think you may be confusing “doctrine” with specific rituals of practice. > > Vatican II did not change any doctrine. It changed the rituals we use during the celebration of Mass. > [@dropzone](#): > > It was more than that: > [Second Vatican Council - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council) That’s a huge article you’ve linked to. Would you mind quoting the portion of it that shows a change in doctrine? ---
**Author:** ![a35362](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@a35362](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a35362)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/5180 "2012-04-16T14:24:08Z")
So… we’re still going to have bureaucracies, but just 50 little ones instead of one big one? Don’t governors HATE this stuff? “Yes, we know you’re already having financial difficulties trying to do everything else you have to do, but here’s MORE stuff you have to be responsible for! Let the race to the bottom begin!” I hope the states jump on Romney. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=258) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=260)