# Stupid Republican idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897 "2009-03-26T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 602
**Author:** ![Mr.Greenjeans](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.greenjeans/32/551_2.png) [@Mr.Greenjeans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Greenjeans)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12021 "2013-12-12T17:51:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Objecting to a black Santa Claus is fine. Objecting to a black Santa Claus but not caring about an English-speaking Santa Claus is stupid. So, Megyn Kelly is stupid. I’ll make a note of that. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12022 "2013-12-12T17:52:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Objecting to a black Santa Claus is fine. Objecting to a black Santa Claus but not caring about an English-speaking Santa Claus is stupid. That’s fair. I think of him as the strong silent type anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12023 "2013-12-12T17:57:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Okay, I had initially been flippant. But now I’ll pose it seriously. Santa Claus (as he currently exists) is tangentially linked to St. Nicholas, but is, more accurately, a Dutch/Germanic amalgamation of Odin’s Yule traditions and some English anti-Puritan drunken brawler version of Christmas. Does a child young enough to believe in Santa make any of these connections? If a child wants to believe in a black Santa to feel more included, then let them have at it. It’s stupid for the likes of Kelly to say: “You’re doing Santa wrong.” He’s a fictional creature, they can portray him however they want. Kelly acts as if the is a violation of the holy sacrament. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12024 "2013-12-12T18:02:27Z")
I guess Fox News just wants black people to go back to celebrating Kwanzaa as God intended. > [@Mr.Greenjeans](#): > > So, Megyn Kelly is stupid. I’ll make a note of that. Hey, I didn’t claim it was breaking news or anything. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12025 "2013-12-12T18:52:44Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Okay, I had initially been flippant. But now I’ll pose it seriously. Santa Claus (as he currently exists) is tangentially linked to St. Nicholas, but is, more accurately, a Dutch/Germanic amalgamation of Odin’s Yule traditions and some English anti-Puritan drunken brawler version of Christmas. > > For reasons that escape me, Miley Cyrus and some other broad who dressed like a “generic Asian” forced us all to go through another round of lecturing about “cultural appropriation” (something that previously seemed to come up with the naming of college sports teams). Apparently, it’s offensive, bad, racist, and somehow damaging. (A quick google search shows a bizarre fixation on white people with dreadlocks). > > Objecting to a black Sinterklass, apparently, makes you a racist who doesn’t “like minorities getting uppity ideas about being the same as the rest of us.” I don’t see why it’s not just opposing an act of cultural appropriation. I was hoping you were better than this, but I guess not. Do you really not see the difference in minority groups who are woefully underrepresented by the media at large (which has proven to lead children to think of themselves as ugly or undesirable because they’re non-white) portraying a fictional character (who’s look was largely popularized by an advertising campaign) looking like themselves, vs dressing up in revealing versions of another culture’s outfits as a sort of sexy costume prop? Are you really comparing a black santa to racist caricatures of oppressed people? This is without even getting into the huge whitewashing of european history, where it’s assumed everyone is europe has to be white, of course, black people just have never existed there. I guess you respect the “culture” of coca-cola more than you do the culture of actual people… **Edit:** By what logic can you claim that Santa can’t be portrayed as white, but Jesus _has_ to be portrayed as white? I’m really curious to see you try to defend that. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12026 "2013-12-12T19:07:28Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > **Edit:** By what logic can you claim that Santa can’t be portrayed as white Whoa. Santa _can’t_ be white now? The war-on-Christmas types were right! The holiday is under attack! ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12027 "2013-12-12T19:12:11Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Whoa. Santa _can’t_ be white now? The war-on-Christmas types were right! The holiday is under attack! Bah. Too late to edit, mentally edit the mangled sentence to what it’s supposed to be. It’s what I get for trying to hurriedly post before the edit window closes… ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12028 "2013-12-12T19:13:57Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > Do you really not see the difference in minority groups who are woefully underrepresented by the media at large (which has proven to lead children to think of themselves as ugly or undesirable because they’re non-white) portraying a fictional character (who’s look was largely popularized by an advertising campaign) looking like themselves, vs dressing up in revealing versions of another culture’s outfits as a sort of sexy costume prop? Are you really comparing a black santa to racist caricatures of oppressed people? > > This is without even getting into the huge whitewashing of european history, where it’s assumed everyone is europe has to be white, of course, black people just have never existed there. > > I guess you respect the “culture” of coca-cola more than you do the culture of actual people… So, Madonna in a bindi is a “racist caricature of an oppressed people”? But black Odin is okay because it makes people feel better about themselves and all European culture is one big homogenous mess of oppressiveness? Is the fact that the British “appropriated” Sinterklass mean that it’s a free-for-all? Is the bindi okay now that Selena Gomez wore it and she’s not white? Also, I’m pretty sure the Dutch are actual people. Although the wooden shoes and windmills do make them seem like something made up by coca-cola. > [@](#): > > **Edit:** By what logic can you claim that Santa can’t be portrayed as white, but Jesus _has_ to be portrayed as white? I’m really curious to see you try to defend that. I don’t think I claimed that Jesus has to be portrayed as white. He was a Jew. I’ve never been sure how we know what the ethnicity of pre-diaspora residents of Judea was, but I assume it’s fairly Semitic in appearance. There is a key difference, though. Jesus was a historical figure. Sinterklaas is a cultural creation that is, I’m told, best understood in the context of the culture of origin and it is destructive to said culture to appropriate it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12029 "2013-12-12T19:57:41Z")
That’s not really a key difference. Jesus as he exists today is mostly a cultural creation too. All we know about the historical figure is his name. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12030 "2013-12-12T20:00:01Z")
The Santa Claus that Megyn Kelly is insisting must be white bears no closer relation to “Sinterklaas” than Mickey Mouse does to the mouse that was running around my house after I got back from an overseas trip recently. The Santa Claus being talked about is _entirely_ a marketing construct _already_ based on raiding someone else’s cultural heritage and working it over in a back alley. If you’re going to rail against cultural thieving, drawing your line in the sand at the point where you start complaining is when the faux-“Sinterklaas” is now a black man… does, indeed, come across as racist. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12031 "2013-12-12T20:15:34Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > And I like the idea of children leaving fish heads out for Santa to snack on. This. The writer of the [original article](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/holidays/2013/12/santa_claus_an_old_white_man_not_anymore_meet_santa_the_penguin_a_new_christmas.html) that Megyn whatsherface got her panties all in a twist about doesn’t want a black/yellow/red/green/or white Santa. Her suggestion is that Santa be a penguin from now on. Sounds perfect to me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12032 "2013-12-12T20:33:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s not really a key difference. Jesus as he exists today is mostly a cultural creation too. All we know about the historical figure is his name. And that he [does not look at all Jewish](http://www.divinerevelations.info/documents/jesus_pictures/jesus_070.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12033 "2013-12-12T20:41:18Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I don’t think I claimed that Jesus has to be portrayed as white. He was a Jew. I don’t know if I’m just old, but this “Jews aren’t white,” “Spaniards aren’t white,” etc. makes me uncomfortable. If race has any meaning at all, it’s not \*that \*specific. If we let DNA analysis rule the day, South Asians are white, as well as Jews/Arabs/Iberians/Scandinavians… And the whole “sometimes Jewish means a group of people descended from a particular tribe, and sometimes it means a religion” thing bug me too. It lets racism masquerade as religious tolerance. Anyway, Megyn Kelly’s an idiot who can’t even spell Meaghan correctly. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12034 "2013-12-12T20:52:23Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Whoa. Santa _can’t_ be white now? The war-on-Christmas types were right! The holiday is under attack! Perhaps Santa was napalmed during the war? ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12035 "2013-12-12T20:55:46Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > So, Madonna in a bindi is a “racist caricature of an oppressed people”? Sorry, I thought you were referring to the whole Katy Perry bru-ha-ha. The Madonna in a bindi issue is a problem because it’s wearing an object from another culture that has significant cultural and religious meaning _apart_ from that culture. It is turning something that is of cultural significance into something “cool” and “trendy”, which is just kind of gross. > [@](#): > > But black Odin is okay because it makes people feel better about themselves and all European culture is one big homogenous mess of oppressiveness? No, but Santa Claus sure as hell isn’t Odin, unless you’re saying Christians are practicing pagan rituals with christmas trees. Santa Claus is based on a lot of things, but it’s also an _exported_ cultural thing, too. I also have no problems with depicting a “black Odin” or what have you. > [@](#): > > Also, I’m pretty sure the Dutch are actual people. Although the wooden shoes and windmills do make them seem like something made up by coca-cola. So you object to the coke marking of Santa, then? The idea of Santa has become a much, much larger cultural thing - is has long since been divorced from any sort of cultural specificity. A lot of cultural traditions are lost from specific cultures due to being shared and just sort of become traditions, in general. There’s not really any problem with that. The problem is when other cultures are being treated as some sort of “hip style” without any sort of respect to the actual cultures in question. > [@](#): > > There is a key difference, though. Jesus was a historical figure. Sinterklaas is a cultural creation that is, I’m told, best understood in the context of the culture of origin and it is destructive to said culture to appropriate it. Both are largely cultural creations based on real people who have become part of wider spread cultural traditions and are portrayed as extremely-white when it’s likely the original person they were based on wasn’t. I’m not seeing a huge difference. This is just another in a long line of white supremacists who get absolutely _pissed_ that non-white people dare to be depicted in any sort of media at all. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12036 "2013-12-12T20:57:17Z")
[Michagan Republicans pass “Rape Insurance” bill.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/11/michigan-rape-insurance_n_4428432.html) What a disastrous farce. > [@](#): > > “This tells women who were raped … that they should have thought ahead and planned for it,” said Senate Minority Leader Gretchen Whitmer (D-East Lansing) during debates. “Make no mistake, this is anything but a citizens’ initiative. It’s a special interest group’s perverted dream come true." ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12037 "2013-12-12T20:58:52Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > The Santa Claus that Megyn Kelly is insisting must be white bears no closer relation to “Sinterklaas” than Mickey Mouse does to the mouse that was running around my house after I got back from an overseas trip recently. > > The Santa Claus being talked about is _entirely_ a marketing construct _already_ based on raiding someone else’s cultural heritage and working it over in a back alley. If you’re going to rail against cultural thieving, drawing your line in the sand at the point where you start complaining is when the faux-“Sinterklaas” is now a black man… does, indeed, come across as racist. So the idea is that becuase the cultural group (and/or those that look like them) have corrupted the “true nature” of the cultural device being appropriated, it is “racist” to object to the appropriation of that cultural device by another culture? So whether or not Katy Perry performing as a geisha (I looked it up) is a “racist caricatures of oppressed people” is best determined by looking at how the Japanese treat the character (or the Chinese? Is Asian culture homogenous like white culture?) and if it has been changed significantly, then it’s racist to object to her costume? > [@slumtrimpet](#): > > The writer of the [original article](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/holidays/2013/12/santa_claus_an_old_white_man_not_anymore_meet_santa_the_penguin_a_new_christmas.html) that Megyn whatsherface got her panties all in a twist about doesn’t want a black/yellow/red/green/or white Santa. Her suggestion is that Santa be a penguin from now on. Sounds perfect to me. The notion that a “melanin deficient” Santa Claus is offensive to others actually strikes me as more offensive than objecting to a non-white Santa (but both seem pretty silly). > [@bup](#): > > I don’t know if I’m just old, but this “Jews aren’t white,” “Spaniards aren’t white,” etc. makes me uncomfortable. > > If race has any meaning at all, it’s not \*that \*specific. If we let DNA analysis rule the day, South Asians are white, as well as Jews/Arabs/Iberians/Scandinavians… > > And the whole “sometimes Jewish means a group of people descended from a particular tribe, and sometimes it means a religion” thing bug me too. It lets racism masquerade as religious tolerance. I get what you’re saying and you’re right (although, of course, Jews of First Century probably were a fairly discernable tribal group). Racially speaking “white” ought to include Jews, arabs, hispanics, etc. (I don’t know about South Asians). But (with the exception of Jews, I guess), until they do sometime like shoot a black guy, hispanics and arabs are typically considered distinction from “white.” I guess because “white” has become shorthand for “homogenously European in origin.” So, yes, Jesus was white, I agree, but not in the sense, I think, that people are complaining about. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12038 "2013-12-12T21:04:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Is Asian culture homogenous like white culture?) It is perfectly possible to have cultural appropriation from France to England, or the US and the UK, or whatever. It just generally doesn’t happen because most of those countries are rather into exporting their cultures into the rest of the world, and each other. You’re also comparing stuff that happened hundreds and hundreds of years ago with something that happened today, and wondering why one gets people more upset. Gee, I wonder… For better or worse, Santa _is_ part of the US culture now. And culture to a hell of a lot of other places. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12039 "2013-12-12T21:32:22Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > So the idea is that becuase the cultural group (and/or those that look like them) have corrupted the “true nature” of the cultural device being appropriated, it is “racist” to object to the appropriation of that cultural device by another culture? > > So whether or not Katy Perry performing as a geisha (I looked it up) is a “racist caricatures of oppressed people” is best determined by looking at how the Japanese treat the character (or the Chinese? Is Asian culture homogenous like white culture?) and if it has been changed significantly, then it’s racist to object to her costume? No. Your reading comprehension seems to be very poor. The idea is that objecting the the cultural appropriation _only at the point_ where race is involved, is racist. Furious that anyone dares profane “Sinterklaas” by corrupting it into “Santa Claus”? Sure, whatever. At least that’s a consistent stance. But objecting to black Santa as a corruption of “Sinterklaas” where you don’t object to whitebread Santa as the same? Yeah, probably racist. I didn’t mention anything about Katy Perry, and your comment has no bearing on anything I said. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/12040 "2013-12-12T22:39:21Z")
Now that Megyn Kelly has reassured her little chalky viewers that Santa is the same colour as they are, how will she break the news to them that [_he could be…Canadian!!?_](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-delays-full-bid-for-claim-to-north-pole/article15824139/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=601) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=603)