# Stupid Republican idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897 "2009-03-26T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 690
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13781 "2014-03-27T23:05:05Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So long as the gatherings are entirely unofficial, without any hint of administrative favor, and equally encourages other religious views or non-religious views, I have no problem with this. Texas has long had an unfair reputation for intolerance, but the truth is that two different varieties of Baptists often live side by side in relative harmony. In Waco, where I grew up, there were even several Jews, though mostly they were in Temple. There are two issues with [the bill](http://openstates.org/tn/bills/108/HB1547/documents/TND00044269/) as I understand it: 1. It allows students to give religious speeches at official school functions (including opening the school day and other non-voluntary forums). The school is instructed to make clear that the views of the student are not the views of the school, but it still means that students will be forced to listen to other students pray and proselytize at school and school events. > [@](#): > > 49-6-1802. > (a) To ensure that an LEA does not discriminate against a student’s > publicly stated voluntary expression of a religious viewpoint, if any, and to > eliminate any actual or perceived affirmative school sponsorship or attribution to > the LEA of a student’s expression of a religious viewpoint, if any, an LEA shall > adopt a policy that includes the establishment of a limited public forum for > student speakers at all school events at which a student is to publicly speak. 1. It prohibits students from being marked down for religious views expressed in homework. While it says that ordinary academic standards apply, the model local policy the bill would require only address religious views in an English class (students can use Psalms as an example of a poem, etc.) where I would be more concerned with religion turning up in science or social studies homework. > [@](#): > > 1. Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, > artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Homework and classroom assignments shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate academic concerns identified by the LEA. Students may not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work Bottom line it adds nothing to religious freedom as students are already allowed to practice their religions themselves, but it will allow students to force their beliefs on other students and potential provide justification for students and parents to try and force their religious beliefs into the science class. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13782 "2014-03-27T23:28:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I always get those two confused. Well, they **are** so close together. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13783 "2014-03-27T23:47:43Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Well, they **are** so close together. Inexplicably so, in fact. If there’s any other state where Sarah Palin could be a governor . . . ---
**Author:** ![MacCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maccat/32/216_2.png) [@MacCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacCat)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13784 "2014-03-27T23:57:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Inexplicably so, in fact. If there’s any other state where Sarah Palin could be a governor . . . At least Half Governor. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13785 "2014-03-28T01:01:56Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > . . . Bottom line it adds nothing to religious freedom as students are already allowed to practice their religions themselves, but it will allow students to force their beliefs on other students and potential provide justification for students and parents to try and force their religious beliefs into the science class. And what will happen the very first time some kid invokes this freedom to recite from the Koran? I suggest the blatant hypocrisy of the legislators will be highlighted for all to see. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13786 "2014-03-28T01:15:03Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > And what will happen the very first time some kid invokes this freedom to recite from the Koran? Silly rabbit! Religious freedom [is only for Christians.](http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147504696) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13787 "2014-03-28T01:15:59Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > And what will happen the very first time some kid invokes this freedom to recite from the Koran? I suggest the blatant hypocrisy of the legislators will be highlighted for all to see. Sort of already happened with [school vouchers.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/06/valarie-hodges-lawmaker-retracts-support-for-bill_n_1655249.html) > [@](#): > > Hodges initially supported the governor’s program because she mistakenly equated “religious” with “Christian,” according to the report. Jindal’s reform package allows state education funds to be used to send students to religious schools. > > “Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders’ religion…" ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13788 "2014-03-28T01:38:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Silly rabbit! Religious freedom [is only for Christians.](http://www.afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147504696) > [@](#): > > The First Amendment was written by the Founders to protect the free exercise of Christianity. Oh, _caro mi Jesu_ . . . > [@](#): > > They were making no effort to give special protections to Islam. Quite the contrary. We actually at the time were dealing with our first encounters with jihad in the form of the Barbary Pirates, which is why Jefferson bought a copy of the Koran. Yeah, well, [we settled that dispute](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli). > [@](#): > > As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. [As Brooke Allen notes in _The Nation:_](http://www.thenation.com/article/our-godless-constitution) > [@](#): > > This document was endorsed by Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and President John Adams. It was then sent to the Senate for ratification; the vote was unanimous. It is worth pointing out that although this was the 339th time a recorded vote had been required by the Senate, it was only the third unanimous vote in the Senate’s history. There is no record of debate or dissent. The text of the treaty was printed in full in the _Philadelphia Gazette_ and in two New York papers, but there were no screams of outrage, as one might expect today. > > The Founding Fathers were not religious men, and they fought hard to erect, in Thomas Jefferson’s words, “a wall of separation between church and state.” John Adams opined that if they were not restrained by legal measures, Puritans–the fundamentalists of their day–would “whip and crop, and pillory and roast.” The historical epoch had afforded these men ample opportunity to observe the corruption to which established priesthoods were liable, as well as “the impious presumption of legislators and rulers,” as Jefferson wrote, “civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time.” > > If we define a Christian as a person who believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ, then it is safe to say that some of the key Founding Fathers were not Christians at all. Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and Tom Paine were deists–that is, they believed in one Supreme Being but rejected revelation and all the supernatural elements of the Christian Church; the word of the Creator, they believed, could best be read in Nature. John Adams was a professed liberal Unitarian, but he, too, in his private correspondence seems more deist than Christian. > > George Washington and James Madison also leaned toward deism, although neither took much interest in religious matters. Madison believed that “religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize.” He spoke of the “almost fifteen centuries” during which Christianity had been on trial: “What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.” If Washington mentioned the Almighty in a public address, as he occasionally did, he was careful to refer to Him not as “God” but with some nondenominational moniker like “Great Author” or “Almighty Being.” It is interesting to note that the Father of our Country spoke no words of a religious nature on his deathbed, although fully aware that he was dying, and did not ask for a man of God to be present; his last act was to take his own pulse, the consummate gesture of a creature of the age of scientific rationalism. > > Tom Paine, a polemicist rather than a politician, could afford to be perfectly honest about his religious beliefs, which were baldly deist in the tradition of Voltaire: “I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life… I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.” This is how he opened _The Age of Reason,_ his virulent attack on Christianity. In it he railed against the “obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness” of the Old Testament, “a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.” The New Testament is less brutalizing but more absurd, the story of Christ’s divine genesis a “fable, which for absurdity and extravagance is not exceeded by any thing that is to be found in the mythology of the ancients.” He held the idea of the Resurrection in especial ridicule: Indeed, “the wretched contrivance with which this latter part is told, exceeds every thing that went before it.” Paine was careful to contrast the tortuous twists of theology with the pure clarity of deism. “The true deist has but one Deity; and his religion consists in contemplating the power, wisdom, and benignity of the Deity in his works, and in endeavoring to imitate him in every thing moral, scientifical, and mechanical.” Abraham Lincoln was an atheist, BTW. In his youth he wrote a book debunking Christianity – and then burned the manuscript (no copy survives) when a friend pointed out how publishing it would doom his political ambitions. You can read the whole story in [_What Lincoln Believed: The Values and Convictions of America’s Greatest President,_](http://www.amazon.com/What-Lincoln-Believed-Convictions-President/dp/1400030730) by Michael Lind. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13789 "2014-03-28T03:12:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Abraham Lincoln was an atheist, BTW. In his youth he wrote a book debunking Christianity – and then burned the manuscript (no copy survives) when a friend pointed out how publishing it would doom his political ambitions. You can read the whole story in [_What Lincoln Believed: The Values and Convictions of America’s Greatest President,_](http://www.amazon.com/What-Lincoln-Believed-Convictions-President/dp/1400030730) by Michael Lind. This thread deals with the _Stupid Republican idea **of the day** _, why do you mention Lincoln? That is like comparing Arianna Huffington to Aristotle by dint of both being Hellenic. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13790 "2014-03-28T03:23:36Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Fischer] The First Amendment was written by the Founders to protect the free exercise of Christianity. [/QUOTE] Wow. I remember reading something almost identical to this about 40 years ago. It was in the _National Lampoon_, and I thought it was pretty funny. Now it’s what passes for serious Republican thought. ETA: @For You: whoosh. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13791 "2014-03-28T04:48:42Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Eh, read the original Declaration of Independence someday; it’s about “life, liberty, and the purfuit of happineff”. > [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > It’s very “in.” Oh, well, if it’s “in”. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13792 "2014-03-28T12:28:54Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Oh, well, if it’s “in”. That’f what fhe faid! ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13793 "2014-03-28T14:58:30Z")
> [@](#): > > George Washington and James Madison also leaned toward deism, although neither took much interest in religious matters… If Washington mentioned the Almighty in a public address, as he occasionally did, he was careful to refer to Him not as “God” but with some nondenominational moniker like “Great Author” or “Almighty Being.” It is interesting to note that the Father of our Country spoke no words of a religious nature on his deathbed, although fully aware that he was dying, and did not ask for a man of God to be present; his last act was to take his own pulse, the consummate gesture of a creature of the age of scientific rationalism. It’s impossible to know Washington’s mind, but his use of euphemistic religious language in public statements may have just been a nod of inclusivity toward his non-religious compatriots. He was at least nominally a Christian, having served on the vestry of the Truro parish Anglican church in the 1760s and 1770s. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13794 "2014-03-28T15:10:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Abraham Lincoln was an atheist, BTW. In his youth he wrote a book debunking Christianity – and then burned the manuscript (no copy survives) when a friend pointed out how publishing it would doom his political ambitions. You can read the whole story in [_What Lincoln Believed: The Values and Convictions of America’s Greatest President,_](http://www.amazon.com/What-Lincoln-Believed-Convictions-President/dp/1400030730) by Michael Lind. Not necessarily disagreeing with you or Michael Lind, but (a) debunking Christianity would make Lincoln no more of an atheist than it did for Jefferson and Paine. It would just make him a non-Christian. And (b) given how many times he invokes the Almighty in public and private, it would make his surprisingly hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13795 "2014-03-28T15:19:09Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > Not necessarily disagreeing with you or Michael Lind, but (a) debunking Christianity would make Lincoln no more of an atheist than it did for Jefferson and Paine. It would just make him a non-Christian. > > And (b) given how many times he invokes the Almighty in public and private, it would make his surprisingly hypocritical. “Surprisingly”? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13796 "2014-03-28T15:26:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Surprisingly”? I guess I hold Lincoln to a higher standard than the average politician. Especially the average Republican. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13797 "2014-03-28T16:10:12Z")
Lincoln wasn’t born Lincoln, he _became_ Lincoln. The man who outfoxed Stephen Douglas was a shrewd politician and conniver. Had he known he would be staying up all night writing pardons so dull-witted farm boys wouldn’t be shot for falling asleep on guard duty, would he have done it? Probably not, but then he never would have become Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13798 "2014-03-28T16:43:39Z")
Way back in Post #9758, I quoted Thomas Jefferson’s autobiography on the intent of Virginia’s law respecting freedom of religion: > [@](#): > > [it] meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination. I don’t think you can be any more clear than that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13799 "2014-03-28T19:21:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The man who outfoxed Stephen Douglas . . . He married Douglas’ GF, but did he ever outfox Douglas in any other way? I recall the Lincoln-Douglas debates were part of a campaign for the U.S. Senate which Douglas **won** (that is, the Illinois legislature picked him). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/13800 "2014-03-28T19:25:33Z")
There was the small matter of the 1860 Presidential election, too. Plus the general defeat of the pro-slavery philosophy that Douglas represented. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=689) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=691)