# Stupid Republican idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897 "2009-03-26T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 827
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16521 "2014-09-08T21:17:51Z")
[I don’t know whether FOX news is saying that it’s Obama fault that Ray Rice beat his wife unconscious, or it’s Obama’s fault that the NFL basically tried to sweep it under the rug](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/andrea-tantaros-ray-rice-obama)… ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16522 "2014-09-08T21:23:00Z")
Smapti, there can never be judicial acknowledgement of the right to rebel. Nor is one necessary. The founders didn’t get a warrant from a court to rebel. The whole point of rebellion is for when law breaks down. If the President does something and ignores Congress and the Supreme Court, then the people can no longer rely on rule of law to protect their rights. Jefferson: " I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, & as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. " [http://foundersquotes.com/quotes/i-hold-it-that-a-little-rebellion-now-and-then-is-a-good-thing/](http://foundersquotes.com/quotes/i-hold-it-that-a-little-rebellion-now-and-then-is-a-good-thing/) Also from Jefferson: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” > **[Thomas Jefferson (17431826) - Collection at Bartleby.com](https://www.bartleby.com/lit-hub/respectfully-quoted/thomas-jefferson-17431826-53/)** > > Thomas Jefferson (17431826) The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16523 "2014-09-08T21:26:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Smapti, there can never be judicial acknowledgement of the right to rebel. Nor is one necessary. > [@adaher](#): > > THe purpose of the 2nd amendment, or one of it’s purposes, is to provide a remedy if the government goes rogue. One of these statements must be false. I leave it to the reader to decide which one. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16524 "2014-09-08T21:27:15Z")
The founder wrote extensively about rebellion. I think the non-crazy side is the one that agrees with them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16525 "2014-09-08T21:37:23Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The founder wrote extensively about rebellion. I think the non-crazy side is the one that agrees with them. Your points about the possibility of rebellion, as it relates to Obama today, are utterly ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16526 "2014-09-08T21:40:04Z")
It’s ridiculous that I said it wouldn’t happen? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16527 "2014-09-08T21:42:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The founder wrote extensively about rebellion. I think the non-crazy side is the one that agrees with them. You are absolutely correct in noting Thomas Jefferson’s thoughts on rebellion. Where you veer into the ditch of whack-a-doodle is to think that our current constitutionally elected president, exercising his constitutional authority, is within light years of requiring a discussion on rebellion. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16528 "2014-09-08T21:48:37Z")
As I keep saying, I don’t think that’s the case at all. I was only defending the concept of rebellion, not justifying it given today’s conditions. We are nowhere near that point, and in fact we’ve been closer in the past. I think Andrew Jackson and FDR could have provoked a rebellion, except they wisely chose to pick on minorities who couldn’t effectively fight back. Obama is nowhere near their level of lawlessness. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16529 "2014-09-08T21:54:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > My point is that I’m not engaging in crazy talk here. I’ve made it clear Tancredo is a nut, and that no one is actually contemplating armed rebellion. I just object to the denigration of “Second amendment solutions” since that’s part of the purpose of the 2nd amendment. You’ve already been shown to be wrong about the armed rebellion planning thing; do you think it will become true if you say it enough times? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16530 "2014-09-08T21:55:37Z")
You believe there is an armed rebellion in the planning stages? And you think I’m crazy? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16531 "2014-09-08T22:12:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s ridiculous that I said it wouldn’t happen? It’s ridiculous when you said “we’d win”. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16532 "2014-09-08T22:45:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You believe there is an armed rebellion in the planning stages? And you think I’m crazy? I **know** you’re crazy. And stupid. But hey, have it your way: cite that there is no armed rebellion being planned in the United States? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16533 "2014-09-08T22:52:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > {…} the Declaration. {…} the 2nd amendment, {…} As I expected! :dubious: > [@adaher](#): > > {…} Also from Jefferson: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” > > [http://bartleby.com/73/1065.html](http://bartleby.com/73/1065.html) > [@](#): > > {…} Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-yard in order. {…}[RIGHT][CITE](http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96oct/obrien/blood.htm)[/RIGHT] Sounds to me like Jefferson had no problem with putting down a [rebellion](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays%27_Rebellion) . . . even if it meant killing patriots. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16534 "2014-09-08T23:16:28Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I just object to the denigration of “Second amendment solutions” since that’s part of the purpose of the 2nd amendment. No, it isn’t. The purpose of the 2nd Amendment was not to facilitate armed rebellion. The “militia” – which Congress can call into federal service and the President command – was meant to be an arm of the government, never a countervailing force against it. The purpose of the 2nd Amendment was indeed to prevent federal tyranny – i.e., to prevent reliance on a large standing federal army by making sure the state/citizens’ militias would always be armed to fight. A large army was feared as a potential instrument of tyranny, understandable after the Americans’ experiences with the Redcoats – the same accounted for the 3rd Amendment against compulsory quartering of troops in homes. As it turned out, their fears were unfounded; we have had a large standing army for a long time, and it has never questioned its subordination to civilian authority, and (unless you count Reconstruction, and, no, don’t; and Indian wars are another discussion) civilian authority has never used it to oppress the people, and in most wars the militia/NG plays an afterthought role, if any – not to downplay its value, but it never provides the bulk of forces as the authors of the 2nd intended. The 2nd Amendment is pretty much as useless as the 3rd. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16535 "2014-09-08T23:17:19Z")
**Smapti** vs. **adaher**. Shit, who do you root for? The retard or the fascist? 😕 Well, **Smapti** appears to be gleefully bragging about the police shutting down a peaceful protest in Ferguson, so fuck him. And **adaher** seems to be defending “second amendment solutions”, albeit in a slightly less retarded way than is generally presented. Gonna have to go with the retard on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16536 "2014-09-08T23:24:33Z")
More women-courting from the lovelies at Fucking Nuts: \*Fox host Brian Kilmeade on Monday blasted the victims of domestic violence, criticizing Palmer (now Janay Rice) and other women who don’t break up with their partner after a domestic violence incident, saying they send a “terrible message.” Kilmeade then proceeded to provide mocking advice to Palmer, quipping, “I think the message is, take the stairs.” Co-host Steve Doocey gamely joined in, “The message is, when you’re in an elevator, there’s a camera.” \* Yeah, that’s the message: Blame the victim. As usual. [http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2014/09/08/3564605/fox-mocks-ray-rice-victim/](http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2014/09/08/3564605/fox-mocks-ray-rice-victim/) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16537 "2014-09-08T23:25:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually, more like Pinochet or Franco, because we’d win. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Look at [this](http://www.people-press.org/2014/06/26/the-political-typology-beyond-red-vs-blue/) and explain how you’d win. I repeat. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16538 "2014-09-08T23:26:28Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > **Smapti** vs. **adaher**. Shit, who do you root for? The retard or the fascist? 😕 Well, **Smapti** appears to be gleefully bragging about the police shutting down a peaceful protest in Ferguson, so fuck him. And **adaher** seems to be defending “second amendment solutions”, albeit in a slightly less retarded way than is generally presented. Gonna have to go with the retard on this one. That does suggest the possibility – what about “Second Amendment solutions” against the Ferguson PD? Anyone care to defend? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16539 "2014-09-08T23:53:05Z")
**BrainGlutton** : Well, as bad as it is, it makes a little more sense than taking it out on neighborhood shopkeepers. “The cops killed my friend… I’m gonna burn down a convenience store…” vs. “The cops killed my friend…I’m gonna cap a cop!” Both are horrifying, but the latter, at least, is more accurately focused. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/16540 "2014-09-08T23:55:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > **BrainGlutton** : Well, as bad as it is, it makes a little more sense than taking it out on neighborhood shopkeepers. > > “The cops killed my friend… I’m gonna burn down a convenience store…” > > vs. > > “The cops killed my friend…I’m gonna cap a cop!” > > Both are horrifying, but the latter, at least, is more accurately focused. But the former is safer, therefore preferred, as it should be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=826) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=828)