# Stupid Republican idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2009, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897 "2009-03-26T18:48:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 928
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18542 "2015-01-20T02:37:18Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Geez, take a Tums. > > Your link says there were thousands of confirmed fraudulent disability claims in 2012, and gives no indication that it was an atypical year. Confirmed voter fraud cases, by contrast, are often not even in the double digits. And each fraudulent disability claim costs the taxpayers real money, while AFAIK there haven’t been any recent examples of voter fraud changing the outcome of an election. I’m well aware that “AFAIK” isn’t very far, though. Well, if there were 5,000 fraudulent claims out of 1,000,000, simple arithmetic says that would be one half of a percent. I have a relative who can no longer work due to cancer and the aftermath of cancer treatments. Social Security disability has been a Godsend. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18543 "2015-01-20T04:14:49Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Well, if there were 5,000 fraudulent claims out of 1,000,000, simple arithmetic says that would be one half of a percent. > > I have a relative who can no longer work due to cancer and the aftermath of cancer treatments. Social Security disability has been a **Godsend**. Yeah, this is a thread about Republican Stupidity, you should probably choose a different word. Given their approach to _entitlement_s (oh, eww, lazy people getting free stuff) I would not be surprised in the future to hear of them using God to taketh away. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18544 "2015-01-20T04:21:49Z")
IT’s not just about fraudulent claims, but dubious claims as well due to the administration setting low standards. Such as people who can work despite their disability. The system is in dire need of reform. They routinely deny your first application just because that’s what they do, forcing you to hire a disability lawyer, who can often get you disability even if you don’t have a disability that prevents you from working. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18545 "2015-01-20T04:24:57Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Well, if there were 5,000 fraudulent claims out of 1,000,000, simple arithmetic says that would be one half of a percent. Which would still be a significantly larger problem than voter fraud is in this country. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18546 "2015-01-20T04:27:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > IT’s not just about fraudulent claims, but dubious claims as well **due to the administration setting low standards**. Such as people who can work despite their disability. Which administration? Obama? Bush 2? Clinton? Bush 1? Reagan? How much further back should I go? Frankly, I’d like a cite that it’s the administration that sets the policy. Or did you mean SSA? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18547 "2015-01-20T04:29:47Z")
Larger than tax fraud too. That’s about 3000 cases per year. [http://www.irs.gov/uac/Statistical-Data-for-Three-Fiscal-Years-Criminal-Investigation-(CI)](http://www.irs.gov/uac/Statistical-Data-for-Three-Fiscal-Years-Criminal-Investigation-%28CI%29) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18548 "2015-01-20T04:32:53Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Larger than tax fraud too. That’s about 3000 cases per year. > [http://www.irs.gov/uac/Statistical-Data-for-Three-Fiscal-Years-Criminal-Investigation-(CI)](http://www.irs.gov/uac/Statistical-Data-for-Three-Fiscal-Years-Criminal-Investigation-%28CI%29) That’s only the ones that are caught vs. all disability claims. And how much money did each tax fraud case cost compared to disability fraud? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18549 "2015-01-20T04:33:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Which administration? Obama? Bush 2? Clinton? Bush 1? Reagan? How much further back should I go? > Frankly, I’d like a cite that it’s the administration that sets the policy. Or did you mean SSA? Whoever did it in the administration, we’re up 23% in five years, quite an explosion. [http://philadelphiafed.org/research-and-data/publications/business-review/2014/q4/brQ414\_rising\_disability.pdf](http://philadelphiafed.org/research-and-data/publications/business-review/2014/q4/brQ414_rising_disability.pdf) Disability isn’t on the rise. In any case, the trust fund runs out this year, so one way or another the problem is going to be fixed. The GOP Congress will not be writing a blank check. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18550 "2015-01-20T04:35:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That’s only the ones that are caught vs. all disability claims. > And how much money did each tax fraud case cost compared to disability fraud? If we’re comparing apples to apples to identify the extent of the problem, we only compare who got caught. I’m sure tax fraud costs more, but in both cases the real money is being lost in legal, but shady, activity. Which is why we reform these things every couple of decades. People figure out the loopholes, both in taxes and in entitlements, and so the loopholes have to be closed. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18551 "2015-01-20T16:54:17Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > … the difference between left and right wingers is that while both agree that a perfect system is impossible, left wingers would rather let some people defraud the system than have any truly needy people go without help, while the right wingers would rather have some needy people go without help than allow anyone to defraud the system. This is a concise and well-written synopsis of the eternal political struggle over benefits and social safety nets, and is a good way to reflect the different priorities of the opposing sides without assigning value judgements. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18552 "2015-01-20T17:11:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Whoever did it in the administration, we’re up 23% in five years, quite an explosion. > > [http://philadelphiafed.org/research-and-data/publications/business-review/2014/q4/brQ414\_rising\_disability.pdf](http://philadelphiafed.org/research-and-data/publications/business-review/2014/q4/brQ414_rising_disability.pdf) I assume that once again you didn’t read your own cite which lays the blames on a combination of acts of the 1984 congress, the increase in income inequality, and lack of access to medical insurance for the poor. [QUOTE= adaher’s cite] These actions led to a decline in enrollment but also generated a public backlash. Congress responded with legislation in 1984 that relaxed the eligibility criteria to include hard-to-verify ailments such as depression and back pain. … Another commonly cited reason, documented in depth by David Autor and Mark Duggan, is the increase in the replacement rate — the ratio of D.I. benefits relative to the market wage — for low-wage workers. As I will explain in depth below, this increase is not a result of a change in the rules for disability insurance, but rather a result of greater income inequality in the U.S. combined with how D.I. benefits are determined. … A third factor behind high replacement rates is that, since 1973, disability beneficiaries have been eligible for Medicare after being enrolled in the program for two years. Given that most low-wage workers have limited or no medical coverage through their employers, and also given the rising cost of health care, the value of Medicare benefits under the disability insurance program for these workers has been going up. [/QUOTE] No mention of this administration anywhere. Adaher, you don’t by any chance moonlight as a fact checker for Jindal do you? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18553 "2015-01-20T18:18:20Z")
The annual [Kochsucker Konvention](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/21/us/koch-seminar-is-early-proving-ground-for-gop-hopefuls.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news) is coming soon to Palm Springs. All the squinty-eyed mongrels will be sidling up to the coronating kings, licking their hands and hoping receive a morsel and not a kick in the slats. Let the ass kissing begin! ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18554 "2015-01-20T19:34:30Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I assume that once again you didn’t read your own cite which lays the blames on a combination of acts of the 1984 congress, the increase in income inequality, and lack of access to medical insurance for the poor. > No mention of this administration anywhere. > > Adaher, you don’t by any chance moonlight as a fact checker for Jindal do you? The big increase has occurred under this administration. Does the administration decide enforcement priorities or does it not? Because last I heard, Obama was very aggressively stating that he does decide such things. Of course the big reason disability has probably gone up is the economy. But that has nothing to do with actual disability, it just means more people are motivated to seek it out as an income stream since they can’t find work. An administration interested in making the program work and not go bankrupt would place a high priority on making sure those who get disability need it. But it is going bankrupt, like very very soon, and I’m sure they will seek to dodge accountability for that like they dodge accountability for everything. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18555 "2015-01-20T19:40:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Social Security’s Disability Insurance (DI) program satisfies neither the Trustees’ long-range test of close actuarial balance nor their short-range test of financial adequacy and faces the most immediate financing shortfall of any of the separate trust funds. DI Trust Fund reserves expressed as a percent of annual cost (the trust fund ratio) declined to 62 percent at the beginning of 2014, and the Trustees project trust fund depletion late in 2016, the same year projected in the last Trustees Report. > **[Trustees Report Summary](https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/)** > > A SUMMARY OF THE 2024 ANNUAL REPORTS I’ve seen nothing in the way of action by this administration to resolve this problem. The only proposals are coming from Republicans. Well, that’s not entirely true. The administration does have a proposal, an incredibly stupid and cowardly proposal: reallocate Social Security money into the Disability trust fund, thus accelerating the depletion of the Social Security trust fund: > **[SSA%20Responses%20to%20Follow%20up%20QFRs%20-%20Senate%20Finance%20%284%29.pdf](https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/SSA%20Responses%20to%20Follow%20up%20QFRs%20-%20Senate%20Finance%20%284%29.pdf)** ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18556 "2015-01-20T21:12:54Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The big increase has occurred under this administration. Does the administration decide enforcement priorities or does it not? Because last I heard, Obama was very aggressively stating that he does decide such things. > > Of course the big reason disability has probably gone up is the economy. But that has nothing to do with actual disability, it just means more people are motivated to seek it out as an income stream since they can’t find work. An administration interested in making the program work and not go bankrupt would place a high priority on making sure those who get disability need it. > > But it is going bankrupt, like very very soon, and I’m sure they will seek to dodge accountability for that like they dodge accountability for everything. Hey don’t argue with me, it’s your cite. Incidentally looking at Figure one it appears to me that the growth was pretty steady going back to 1987. Heck, if you crunch the numbers even [CNS news](http://cnsnews.com/news/article/first-term-americans-collecting-disability-increased-1385418-now-1-each-13-full-time)says that Bush had about as much of an increase as Obama (18.8% growth Obamas 1st term vs 22.6% and 19.4% for Bush’s two terms.) As to what to do about it, if we are to believe your cite the best way would seem to be to increase the wages and provide universal healthcare so that disability isn’t so attractive. Or else I guess you could kick them into the street. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18557 "2015-01-20T21:26:28Z")
Oh, lets not exaggerate, there is no need to kick, a simple shove and they will roll right handily into the traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18558 "2015-01-20T21:30:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, lets not exaggerate, there is no need to kick, a simple shove and they will roll right handily into the traffic. But a kick eliminates the chance of fingerprints. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18559 "2015-01-20T23:02:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The big increase has occurred under this administration. Does the administration decide enforcement priorities or does it not? Because last I heard, Obama was very aggressively stating that he does decide such things. > > Of course the big reason disability has probably gone up is the economy. But that has nothing to do with actual disability, it just means more people are motivated to seek it out as an income stream since they can’t find work. An administration interested in making the program work and not go bankrupt would place a high priority on making sure those who get disability need it. > > But it is going bankrupt, like very very soon, and I’m sure they will seek to dodge accountability for that like they dodge accountability for everything. I don’t think the problem with disability is with the administration, it is more likely a problem with the economy and with the way the laws are currently set up. We set up unemployment benefits to expire after 6 months, and even though we have had a bunch of extensions after the great recession, we still left a lot of people with nothing to fall back on except for disability. There have been many reports of doctors approving disability for people that it was not appropriate for because it was either this or let them become homeless and starve. Disability is a horrible solution to take care of these people with no other means of support during tough times; once you are on disability, it is very difficult to get off with basically admitting fraud. So now these people are effectively locked out of the economy and all the dole for life. I will actually admit that it is a problem the current administration is doing nothing to solve, but it has been a problem for many years and the growth has been relatively constant since well before Obama took office. [Cite](http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/dibGraphs.html). With this fact, I would like to nominate your partisan blaming in this thread as a topic of this thread, i.e. a SRIofD. > [@adaher](#): > > [Trustees Report Summary](http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/) > > I’ve seen nothing in the way of action by this administration to resolve this problem. The only proposals are coming from Republicans. > > Well, that’s not entirely true. The administration does have a proposal, an incredibly stupid and cowardly proposal: reallocate Social Security money into the Disability trust fund, thus accelerating the depletion of the Social Security trust fund: > > [http://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/SSA%20Responses%20to%20Follow%20up%20QFRs%20-%20Senate%20Finance%20(4).pdf](http://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/SSA%20Responses%20to%20Follow%20up%20QFRs%20-%20Senate%20Finance%20%284%29.pdf) Let me ask you this: What the hell could Obama have done to solve this problem given the fact that both the House and Senate have been incredibly hostile to him over the last 4 years? Seriously? Obama has been able to get nothing done since 2010, and I don’t really think he is to blame here. What proposals are coming from Republicans anyway? I think this a very appropriate thread to discuss them. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18560 "2015-01-21T00:20:36Z")
Rand Paul’s “stupid” proposal to tighten requirements would do more to insure the solvency of the system than moving money between trust funds. The administration made a point of going after Medicare fraud when they needed to get their health care bill passed. let’s put some of those resources towards revisiting who is eligible for disability. SSA has tremendous latitude to turn people down. They turn down legitimate cases on a regular basis just because their bureaucracy is nonsensical. You shouldn’t need a lawyer to get disability anymore than you should need a lawyer to get Social Security. But you do, and that right there means we need reform. Paul’s suggestion goes part of the way towards fixing disability. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/18561 "2015-01-21T00:23:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > You shouldn’t need a lawyer to get disability anymore than you should need a lawyer to get Social Security. But you do, and that right there means we need reform. My late wife got SS disability without a lawyer, on her first application, in less than 90 days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=927) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897.md?page=929)