# Stupid Romney lack of an idea of the day **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752 "2012-07-19T18:32:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/41 "2012-07-20T18:48:59Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > No it isn’t. You can’t just say “no it isn’t” Yes I can Look, an argument isn’t an automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says. Yes it is. No it isn’t. I love that episode. I should put it on my hard drive so I can sit in my office and laugh when the day starts sucking. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/42 "2012-07-20T18:55:13Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > I love that episode. I should put it on my hard drive so I can sit in my office and laugh when the day starts sucking. No, you shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/43 "2012-07-20T18:57:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No. He, along with most of the Republicans, has always been against an announced time-line for end of combat. The old I-have-a-plan-but-can’t/won’t-tell-you-what-it-is gambit. Has that ever worked? I mean, it has worked as far as getting someone elected, but has the secret plan ever turned out not to be complete pig swill? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/44 "2012-07-20T19:11:59Z")
The problem with “we intend to leave but we’re not going to tell you when” is multi-fold. 1\> The Afghan Government might have some interest in knowing when we intend to leave and in wanting us out in a certain time frame. 2\> Withdrawing our troops requires a huge amount of effort on multiple fronts. It’s not like we wake up Tuesday morning and say “Ok, everyone start going home”. It is going to very obvious to everyone for a long time that we are preparing to withdraw. It then becomes ludicrous to assume this is the way to go since the enemy won’t know how long you’re going to be there. 3\> Announcing a withdrawal date signals the end of your involvement and signals that you’re leaving on your own terms. The downside claim is that it tells the Enemy they can just wait you out. Announcing Tuesday Morning that you’re suddenly pulling out allows the Enemy to claim that they’ve caused you to give up and leave. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/45 "2012-07-20T19:32:12Z")
Never mind, Ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/46 "2012-07-20T19:45:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. The President’s " Strategic Partnership Agreement" between the United States and Afghanistan specifies 2014 as the end of our engagement there. > > Governor Romney’s position is that announcing a definite end date, as that does, was unwise. Do you think his policy is to not tell the Afghani government about it - or to tell them, secretly, and hope the Taliban doesn’t find out? It’s kind of like having your kid in your basement playing video games all day. Telling him he has to move out when he gets a job isn’t going to work very well, giving him a firm deadline concentrates the mind wonderfully. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/47 "2012-07-20T19:52:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Do you think his policy is to not tell the Afghani government about it - or to tell them, secretly, and hope the Taliban doesn’t find out? > > It’s kind of like having your kid in your basement playing video games all day. Telling him he has to move out when he gets a job isn’t going to work very well, giving him a firm deadline concentrates the mind wonderfully. You’re right – it’s a problem. If you don’t set a date, they may never step up. If you do, that emboldens the guerrilla forces to wait you out. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/48 "2012-07-20T19:54:43Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > If you look far back enough on my posts, you’ll find that I was giving Bush the benefit of the doubt on the Iraq situation, based on the fact that he was President and was certainly privy to information that we, the public, did not possess. As it turned out, he had made all that shit up. So by 2008, Bush had squandered any credibility that his strategies were based on information gathered from the field. So, yes, I think a member of the Senate Foreign Relations committee could have been sufficiently in the loop to form a competitive strategy regarding Afghanistan, certainly in the large details. > > All of this arguing, however, is your attempt obfuscate the fact that Romney said he would that he would schedule his Afghanistan policy based on the input of commanders on the ground, and then critiqued Obama for doing precisely that. > > \*My point is that I do not believe that Romney’s critiques regarding Obama are based on policy or an intelligent assessment of the situation on the ground – it’s a completely reflexive thrashing of any policy that Obama puts forward, regardless of its merit. \* But did Obama base his policy on input from commanders on the ground? Or did he fire the one who wasn’t telling him what he wanted to hear? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/49 "2012-07-20T19:55:56Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > No, you shouldn’t. Well, he might be doing it in his spare time… ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/50 "2012-07-20T20:10:48Z")
Hey, I’m happy to discredit attacks on political opponents when those attacks are unfair. I clearly recall defending Republicans against Alan Grayson’s stupid attack on GOP health care policies, which he said amounted to “die quickly” or something like that. That clearly isn’t the Republican stance on health care. [Here](http://www.mittromney.com/issues/afghanistan-pakistan) is Romney’s statement on Afghanistan. Let me parse it for you: it is a lot of words that say almost nothing. It draws a vague distinction with Obama’s policies, which pretty much amounts to 2014 and we won’t let the door hit us on the ass. Romney’s position boils down to “I’m going to talk to military commanders, I don’t have a timeline, and I’m going to be tough on Pakistan and Karzai.” Other than being notable for not setting a timeline, which is indeed a position, these statements are as meaningless as campaign promises to “do right for the American people” and “create more jobs” and “restore dignity to the White House” and all that other politician double-speak that we’re so used to. I would agree that aside from “no deadlines,” Romney has not said anything of consequence that I’m aware of on what his views are on Afghanistan. Thus, I think it is an exaggeration of only the smallest order to say that Romney has no Afghanistan policy. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/51 "2012-07-21T06:51:07Z")
Last fall, Mitt Romney stood before The Citadel in Charleston, South Carolina and laid out the foreign policy of a Romney administration. He did not mention al-Qaeda, but he did promise to reverse “Massive defense cuts”, that in fact never happened. Mitt Romney is a dangerous clown. ht [Mark Kleiman](http://www.samefacts.com/2011/10/international-affairs/mitt-romney-alleged-grown-up/) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/52 "2012-07-21T10:51:48Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > [Here](http://www.mittromney.com/issues/afghanistan-pakistan) is Romney’s statement on Afghanistan. Let me parse it for you: it is a lot of words that say almost nothing. It draws a vague distinction with Obama’s policies, which pretty much amounts to 2014 and we won’t let the door hit us on the ass. > > Romney’s position boils down to “I’m going to talk to military commanders, I don’t have a timeline, and I’m going to be tough on Pakistan and Karzai.” Other than being notable for not setting a timeline, which is indeed a position I’d thought that Mitt promised in that statement that we’d stay until the Afghan army “can protect the sovereignty of Afghanistan from the tyranny of the Taliban,” but on closer reading, he only promises to work with his commanders to determine the level of U.S. assistance it would take to enable them to do so. So yeah, anti-timeline is the extent of Romney’s position on Afghanistan. I didn’t start this thread to slag his position on anything, but at this late date, any position on Afghanistan worthy of the name needs to take into account the fact that _we’ve already been there nearly eleven years_, and we’ve already tried a bunch of stuff. So the plan should, _at an absolute minimum_, either explain why more persistence will succeed where eleven years of persistence has failed, or explain why some new and brilliant idea it brings to the table has a decent chance to succeed where previous new and brilliant ideas have come up short. Anything that doesn’t grapple with this is only technically a plan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/53 "2012-07-21T17:30:48Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Last fall, Mitt Romney stood before The Citadel in Charleston, South Carolina and laid out the foreign policy of a Romney administration. He did not mention al-Qaeda, but he did promise to reverse “Massive defense cuts”, that in fact never happened. > > Mitt Romney is a dangerous clown. > ht [Mark Kleiman](http://www.samefacts.com/2011/10/international-affairs/mitt-romney-alleged-grown-up/) From [Obama’s press conference in July of 2011:](http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/07/15/press-conference-president) > [@Obama](#): > > Now, what is important is that even as we raise the debt ceiling, we also solve the problem of underlying debt and deficits. I’m glad that congressional leaders don’t want to default, but I think the American people expect more than that. They expect that we actually try to solve this problem, we get our fiscal house in order. > > And so during the course of these discussions with congressional leaders, what I’ve tried to emphasize is we have a unique opportunity to do something big. We have a chance to stabilize America’s finances for a decade, for 15 years, or 20 years, if we’re wiling to seize the moment. > > Now, what that would require would be some shared sacrifice and a balanced approach that says we’re going to make significant cuts in domestic spending. And I have already said I am willing to take down domestic spending to the lowest percentage of our overall economy since Dwight Eisenhower. > > It also requires cuts in defense spending, and I’ve said that in addition to the $400 billion that we’ve already cut from defense spending, we’re willing to look for hundreds of billions more. Emphasis added. Maybe Obama was lying or spinning, but if he’s going to claim huge defense spending cuts, it seems fair for Romney to call him on it. But thanks for the link to that speech. I don’t agree with much of it, but it’s a good speech. One of the best I’ve seen from Romney. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752/54 "2012-07-22T02:40:25Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Personally, I’ve had enough of open ended commitments to prop up corrupt and/or inept regimes, and I think most Americans would agree with me. I agree. We lost focus after 9/11. We went into Afghanistan because the government, the Taliban, allowed terrorists to train with no recourse. We went in to stop that. Then we started pissing around with opium growing, and rights for women, and a host of other nation building activities. (Though rights for women are laudable, I’m not willing to commit military resources for them in shithole countries). The mission should have been limited to handing over power to a government who could answer the following question in the affirmative: 1. Will you crush terrorist training camps with an iron fist? If the answer (backed up by reliable data) is in the affirmative, then we are cool. Peace out. You want to grow opium and subjugate women? Shame on you, but carry on. ETA: Oh, and give us Bin Laden. Do that and we will leave you alone. So…two questions. No negotiations. Just do it and we are gone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-romney-lack-of-an-idea-of-the-day/628752.md?page=2)