# Stupid school administrators and uniforms **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265 "2003-12-11T03:53:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Obsidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@Obsidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obsidian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/21 "2003-12-12T08:17:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* > \*\*The other, and perhaps more important in certain communities than others, is that it removes the need to compete with each other in terms of clothing. We all can remember the kids (boys and girls) who had all the nice clothes in school. With uniforms, at least while at school, there is no need to worry about fitting in or following the newest trend in clothing. You just wear your blue pants and that’s that. My public H.S. drew kids from very different backgrounds, including some of the wealthiest suburbs of Chicago, some very blue collar towns, and low income housing as well. Just watching the kids walk into school you could almost instantly tell who is from where based on the way they were dressed. I think uniforms would have been a great idea. \*\* I’m sorry, but I call bullshit on this theory, popular though it may be. I went to a catholic school. The entire uniform was proscribed, and strictly. The skirt had to be bought from their vendor. The socks and sweater must be navy blue, the shirt white (square colar, no ruffles, no adornment). Saddle shoes, white laces. Small, stud-sized earings (one hole per ear). Crosses allowed as a necklace. Anyone who went to a school like this, back me up. . .you all knew whose white shirt was from Ralph Lauren and whose was from K-Mart. You knew whose sweater was cashmere and whose wasn’t. Which crusifix is real gold? 14k? 18k? Whose diamond studs were bigger? Who had their uniform skirt tailored, and who just made do? How about backpacks-- Prada? Pennys? There are a hundred ways. My point is, kids are going to be competitive snots no matter what you do. Unless we get like the prison system and everyone wears identical jumpsuits, you can’t level the playing field through dress. Gangs will find a way to self-identify. Rich kids will find a way to show off. And don’t even _get_ me started on the volume of ‘uniform codes’ that require girls to wear skirts. This is not the place for a feminist hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/22 "2003-12-12T13:21:29Z")
I read the original article and I don’t see the pit-worthiness of the OP. Like Obsidian, I went to a school which had a uniform - and we had to buy clothes from particular shops too. In fact, every school I attended mandated a uniform. I didn’t have a problem with it. Two reasons for wearing a uniform I haven’t seen mentioned are discipline and esprit de corps. Just like in the military. As previously mentioned, clothes no longer become a mark of division. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/23 "2003-12-12T13:32:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Obsidian \* > \*\*I’m sorry, but I call bullshit on this theory, popular though it may be. > > I went to a catholic school. …Anyone who went to a school like this, back me up. . .you all knew whose white shirt was from Ralph Lauren and whose was from K-Mart. You knew whose sweater was cashmere and whose wasn’t. Which crusifix is real gold? 14k? 18k? Whose diamond studs were bigger? Who had their uniform skirt tailored, and who just made do? How about backpacks-- Prada? Pennys? There are a hundred ways. > > My point is, kids are going to be competitive snots no matter what you do. Unless we get like the prison system and everyone wears identical jumpsuits, you can’t level the playing field through dress. Gangs will find a way to self-identify. Rich kids will find a way to show off. > \*\* My daughter went to a private school for K and part of first grade, and the uniforms were all ordered from a uniform company, so there was no “Ralph Lauren” white shirts and so on. All uniforms WERE the same. I can see your point if the uniforms are simply left up to the parents and students, as in “white shirts/blue skirts or pants”. But if the school wrote into their policy that the uniforms had to be purchased through an authorized uniform catalog only?? And no jewelry was allowed? I guess I’m asking rather than disagreeing here. Though I guess kids could certainly display their snobbery in other ways. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/24 "2003-12-12T14:44:44Z")
Ah well… they’ll learn. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/25 "2003-12-12T15:40:06Z")
I like the idea of school uniforms. I’m amazed at how some girls in my son’s **Kindergarten** class wear suggestive things. You’re **5** , I don’t want to see your belly button! It would sure cut down on clothing costs to just buy a couple of pairs of khaki pants and 3 white shirts and be done. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/26 "2003-12-12T16:17:18Z")
Sometimes I wish we had worn uniforms in school. Looking back at old yearbook pictures makes me always want to yell, “What the hell was I wearing??!!” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/27 "2003-12-12T18:34:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*All uniforms WERE the same. > \*\* Hence the term uniform. Otherwise is it just a dress code, not that there is anything wrong with that. My brother went to a private school that had a uniform. All the girls had that Catholic school girl look, and the boys all looked like young Republicans. Thankfully, I went to a public school where I never heard of anybody getting into trouble for what they were wearing. ---
**Author:** ![Obsidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@Obsidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obsidian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/28 "2003-12-12T21:09:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*But if the school wrote into their policy that the uniforms had to be purchased through an authorized uniform catalog only?? \*\* This is essentially what I meant with my prison uniform crack. In order for a uniform to be truly uniform, everything must be purchased from the same place, inculding coats, backpacks, purses, shoes. EVERYTHING on the child’s body. Obviously no jewlery would be allowed. Parents would be allowed to drop their kids off only in approved car models, or all kids would have to take the bus. All children must carry identical lunch bags-- and identical food. Do I think this is realistic? No. It’s not that I’m not in favor of uniforms or dress codes, because I am. There are a number of reasons why it’s a good idea, inculding keeping kids from looking like hoochies in school. I happen to feel that people are better behaved when dressed nicely (I know I felt more proffesional and competent yesterday in my skirt and heels than I do today in jeans and a sweater). I just don’t buy the argument that it eliminates socio-economic competition or individuality. People don’t give kids nearly enough credit. (I’m generally talking about high school, btw. I don’t think little kids care or notice what brand the shirt mommy puts on them is) I hated those uniform company products, though. They were so cheap and flimsy. (I was raised that it’s better to save up and buy a simple, but good wool sweater and take good care of it so it lasts for years, then something cheap in both cost and quality-- in the long run it’s more economical. The boots I’m wearing today were bought in 1992.) ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/29 "2003-12-12T22:01:45Z")
Dunno if it’s my browser, or if the newspaper has pulled the story off their Web site, but I don’t see a story when I hit the link in the OP – just a blank “Picayune Item” page. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/30 "2003-12-13T00:12:47Z")
I have known a great many school administrators in my time. Most of these individuals were and are fine human beings, with a firm grip on the responsibilities of their position and their place and role in the community. But three of them have, upon their confirmation by school boards, promptly gone toddling off into “tin god” territory. Scary thing to watch. People like that can do incredible amounts of damage and bring a community to the point of riot before you can really DO much about them… ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/31 "2003-12-13T00:17:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Obsidian \* > \*\*I’m sorry, but I call bullshit on this theory, popular though it may be. > > I went to a catholic school. The entire uniform was proscribed, and strictly. The skirt had to be bought from their vendor. The socks and sweater must be navy blue, the shirt white (square colar, no ruffles, no adornment). Saddle shoes, white laces. Small, stud-sized earings (one hole per ear). Crosses allowed as a necklace. > > Anyone who went to a school like this, back me up. . .you all knew whose white shirt was from Ralph Lauren and whose was from K-Mart. You knew whose sweater was cashmere and whose wasn’t. Which crusifix is real gold? 14k? 18k? Whose diamond studs were bigger? Who had their uniform skirt tailored, and who just made do? How about backpacks-- Prada? Pennys? There are a hundred ways.\*\* Ok, it wasn’t just me. Yep - we knew… there were the girls who whose clothing was tailored, vs. those who got theirs off the rack in a size that sort of fit, kind of (and were obviously bought with the idea that the kids would grow over the next 7 years). There’s a difference between cashmere and wool and blends. There were the accessories (the diamonds and or other precious stones in the crucifixes, barettes, earrings), there were the designer label handbags. And that’s assuming it was all new … if one person is wearing hand me downs, and someone else’s is brand spankin’ new (even though her older sister is right there, two years ahead of you) kids can tell. And even if not in the clothing “I went to Europe for spring break, but got bored so my parents flew me back early” is a dead giveaway. And the second a 16 year old drives up in her brand new BMW, the other students kind of figure out who’s parents have cash. It’s only a pipe dream that kids won’t show off money if they’re all wearing uniforms. They don’t all look the same, there’s a hundred thousand tiny little ways that the kids will use to separate the haves and the have-nots. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/32 "2003-12-13T01:24:31Z")
First, I have to agree that the linked school policy sounds a bit extreme. That being said, I am in favor of uniforms (not dress codes). We went to uniforms right before my junior year of high school. At the time, I hated the ugly things and couldn’t wait to be rid of them. Looking back, I really do believe they cut down on at least a few reasons some students were taunted in school. Oh sure, you still knew who had money and who didn’t. But before we went to uniforms there was always the student who was made fun of because they wore the same sweater twice in a week. Or had a “generic” polo-style shirt. (Yes, I graduated in '84–at the height of the Izod/Ralph Lauren craze and every darn polo-style shirt had to have some silly icon on it.) And heaven help you if you showed up to school in “buddies” (the name for “non brand” sneakers–at the time Tretorns, Addidas and Nike were the only brands allowed). And, oh the angst the right pair of jeans caused! Levis were semi-okay. But Calvin Klien (this was the era of the Brooke Shields commercials) Sasson, and Gloria Vanderbilt were the only ones that were truly “cool.” Sure, it didn’t eliminate teasing. But thinking of all the time I spent planning my wardrobe (god, were we really that superficial?), all the fights with my mother over what brand of clothing I just _had_ to buy, and all the money I wasted on stupid status clothes, I have to admit that the uniforms were a good idea. Also, I remember “Jane,” a scholarship (this was a private school) student who came to stay with my family (long story) for one semester my softmore year. Jane’s family was undergoing some financial problems, and she didn’t have the required brands or number of essential cool items. I was amazed at how stressful just getting dressed for school was for her. She had maybe 5 outfits she could wear to school. That was it. And, unfortunately, there were comments like “oh, Jane’s wearing her _Monday_ sweater again.” She could have worn some of my mother’s or my clothing if we’d been similar sizes–but my mom and I were about 5’4" and Jane was over 5’10". Sure, she got some new clothing at the time she stayed with us, but I will never forget just what a crisis simply choosing clothes and getting dressed was for her. Maybe it was the times. Maybe my school was particularly snotty (and, I admit, we were). But uniforms, while not a perfect solution to adolesent teasing, were a big step in the right direction. Lastly, lucky for me, uniforms became required right as we hit the new wave/early MTV years. God forgive me for the fashion choices I made in 1983. I look back on some of the truly dreadful early 80’s Go-Go- or Flashdance-inspired crap I wore outside of school. Hey, uniforms saved me from some _very_ embarassing school photos! ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/33 "2003-12-13T02:19:46Z")
Well, I look at the issues faced by the school system here in Memphis and I think that all the children should wear uniforms/meet dress code. (If nothing else, it eliminates at least some distraction in the learning environment). Also saves time when getting the child ready for school, or yelling at the child to get ready. I also listen to posts on this board about “free speech” in school and other rights of children; and cringe. They are children, they don’t have a lot of rights beyond not being beaten or subjected to offensive language. They are children and should be told what to do and they should do it. Like the union says, obey now and grieve later. I see people posting about their rights and think WTF, you gonna let them buy liquor and vote also. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/34 "2003-12-13T02:26:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I also listen to posts on this board about “free speech” in school and other rights of children; and cringe. They are children, they don’t have a lot of rights beyond not being beaten or subjected to offensive language. They are children and should be told what to do and they should do it. Like the union says, obey now and grieve later. Your stupidity is matched only by your astounding inability to hide it. Pictures of your ability for rational thought can be found on the back of milk cartons. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/35 "2003-12-13T02:28:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I see people posting about their rights and think WTF, you gonna let them buy liquor and vote also. These are certainly rights that should be denied of you. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/36 "2003-12-13T03:03:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ilsa\_Lund \* > \*\*Your stupidity is matched only by your astounding inability to hide it. Pictures of your ability for rational thought can be found on the back of milk cartons. \*\* So, am I to assume that you disagree with my opinion? Also, I really don’t understand the “milk carton” remark. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/37 "2003-12-13T03:06:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by county \* > \*\*So, am I to assume that you disagree with my opinion? > > Also, I really don’t understand the “milk carton” remark. \*\* Somehow I am wholly unsurprised. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/38 "2003-12-13T03:30:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by autz \* > \*\*I like the idea of school uniforms. I’m amazed at how some girls in my son’s **Kindergarten** class wear suggestive things. You’re **5** , I don’t want to see your belly button! > > It would sure cut down on clothing costs to just buy a couple of pairs of khaki pants and 3 white shirts and be done. \*\* I think that these are the main advantages to school uniforms. I’m AMAZED at the clothing that stores sell for children. I have to look at the store sign to make sure I’m not, in fact, shopping at Sluts’R’Us Jr. My daughter is graduating college in a couple of days, and even in high school she had very demure tastes, but we had a hard time finding acceptable clothes for her. At least uniforms will ensure that stores offer modest alternatives to slutwear. ---
**Author:** ![Obsidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@Obsidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obsidian)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/39 "2003-12-13T04:20:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by county \* > **They are children, they don’t have a lot of rights beyond not being beaten or subjected to offensive language.** Oddly enough, if there’s one right our school systems REFUSE to give our children, it’s the right to be free from abuse. Behavior that would result in crimal charges or a fat lawsuit in the adult world is laughed off or ignored when it occurs between children. ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265/40 "2003-12-13T04:29:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Obsidian \* > \*\*Oddly enough, if there’s one right our school systems REFUSE to give our children, it’s the right to be free from abuse. Behavior that would result in crimal charges or a fat lawsuit in the adult world is laughed off or ignored when it occurs between children. \*\* And that, for the most part, is how it should be, they are children. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-school-administrators-and-uniforms/218265.md?page=3)