# Stupid Social Justice Warrior Bullshit O' the Day. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443 "2017-03-17T22:14:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 79
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1561 "2017-06-28T17:58:46Z")
Yeah, I suspect this is purely hypothetical for a majority of us. We should ask Steven Tyler his views. I’m fine with organic situations, someone is friendly, gets friendliness in return, friendliness becomes interest, etc. This is how I define consent, which is IMO the most important consideration in these transactions. You possess the social skills to determine if someone’s nonverbal cues indicate a situation of reciprocity. Are they making eye contact, smilling, is their posture open, do they appear relaxed? If you persist in the absence of these cues, you are behaving inappropriately. That behavior is generally rude no matter what, but it’s worse in a secluded location. And I would hope that, even if you disagree, we can all agree that stating that opinion is not worthy of an aggressive campaign of internet harrassment and threatening behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1562 "2017-06-28T18:47:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Depends, I guess. My first thoughts at being vamped on in an elevator would be wondering if this person is, and always has been, female? Careful! I’ve already stepped in that one [on another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=829539). ---
**Author:** ![Squallous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Squallous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squallous)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1563 "2017-06-29T18:07:15Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Neither are cool. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Squallous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Squallous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squallous)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1564 "2017-06-29T18:09:43Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > My first thoughts at being vamped on in an elevator would be wondering if this person is, and always has been, female? I wonder if she’s sane. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Squallous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Squallous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squallous)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1565 "2017-06-29T18:11:23Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > What are your odds of being raped, stalked, harassed, abused, or otherwise becoming a victim of violence by a random stranger who’s a guy vs. a gal? Both are greater than zero. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1566 "2017-06-29T23:21:23Z")
> [@Squallous](#): > > I wonder if she’s sane. But that’s just me. I wonder if _I’m_ sane - if a woman is hitting on me, odds are she’s imaginary. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1567 "2017-07-18T12:14:23Z")
I’m thinking the thread could use a bump for this: [Why these professors are warning against promoting the work of straight, white men](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/07/16/feminist-scientists-say-citing-research-by-straight-white-men-promotes-a-system-of-oppression/#comments). > [@](#): > > Academics and scholars must be mindful about using research done by only straight, white men, according to two scientists who argued that it oppresses diverse voices and bolsters the status of already privileged and established white male scholars. > > Geographers Carrie Mott and Daniel Cockayne argued in a recent paper that doing so also perpetuates what they call “white heteromasculinism,” which they defined as a “system of oppression” that benefits only those who are “white, male, able-bodied, economically privileged, heterosexual, and cisgendered.” (Cisgendered describes people whose gender identity matches their birth sex.) > > Mott, a professor at Rutgers University in New Jersey, and Cockayne, who teaches at the University of Waterloo in Ontario, argued that scholars or researchers disproportionately cite the work of white men, thereby unfairly adding credence to the body of knowledge they offer while ignoring the voices of other groups, like women and black male academics. Although citation seems like a mundane practice, the feminist professors argue that citing someone’s work has implications on his or her ability to be hired, get promoted and obtain tenured status, among others. I have a crazy idea. Cite whomever you need to cite, whether it’s the seminal work or the paper published last year from some university and by researchers you’ve never heard of. I currently have on my desk papers from China, Japan, Italy, Iraq, the US, and probably other countries that I don’t remember (mostly because I didn’t bother looking at the author list) right now and all I care about is whether or not I can reproduce what they did so that I can solve the problem I’m working on. But maybe that’s the difference between actually having to get something done in the hard sciences in industry and being in a soft science in academia. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1568 "2017-07-18T12:26:21Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I’m thinking the thread could use a bump for this: [Why these professors are warning against promoting the work of straight, white men](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2017/07/16/feminist-scientists-say-citing-research-by-straight-white-men-promotes-a-system-of-oppression/#comments). It’s a shit headline. They’re not warning against promoting the work of straight, white men, as the first fucking sentence in the article demonstrates: > [@](#): > > Academics and scholars must be mindful about using research done by only straight, white men The article makes it clear throughout that they’re saying other voices are underrepresented in cites, and that scholars should pay attention to whether they’re only citing straight white men, or whether they’re making an effort to include cites from diverse scholars. There’s a legitimate argument about whether a person should pay attention to that. But misrepresenting what they’re saying as warning against promoting work of straight white men does not allow for that argument. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1569 "2017-07-18T13:32:55Z")
Scientists should cite the scientists who are doing the research–if the science is good, then nationality, religion, age, sex, race, and sexual orientation should be absolutely and totally irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1570 "2017-07-18T13:53:48Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Scientists should cite the scientists who are doing the research–if the science is good, then nationality, religion, age, sex, race, and sexual orientation should be absolutely and totally irrelevant. But what if there is some bias such that some scientists are (whether on purpose or not) giving preference to other white males, and ignoring other researchers, for inclusion on their projects? If so, then perhaps the proposal is reasonable in that it would provide some incentive for scientists to include diverse groups on their own projects. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1571 "2017-07-18T14:20:15Z")
Hence the disclaimer “if the science is good.” Some fields of social sciences have room for bias to affect them, but there is no such thing as equally valid “male speed of light in silicate glass” and “female speed of light in silicate glass.” (Just as there is no equally valid " glaciers move because of gravity, temperature, and friction " and “glaciers move because they dislike the smell of grease” [in glaciology](https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2016/03/13/postmodern-glacier-professor-defends-his-study-says-it-was-misunderstood-it-wasnt/).) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1572 "2017-07-18T14:34:41Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Hence the disclaimer “if the science is good.” Some fields of social sciences have room for bias to affect them, but there is no such thing as equally valid “male speed of light in silicate glass” and “female speed of light in silicate glass.” (Just as there is no equally valid " glaciers move because of gravity, temperature, and friction " and “glaciers move because they dislike the smell of grease” [in glaciology](https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2016/03/13/postmodern-glacier-professor-defends-his-study-says-it-was-misunderstood-it-wasnt/).) But I think this misses the point. Suppose there are lots of white male chemists, physicists, etc. out there who are generally great scientists and do great work, but many of them have biases that they are unaware of that leads them to mostly only work with other white male scientists on their projects. Thus when it’s time for a chemist working on something to get input from a molecular physicist on his project (including a credit on his next research paper), he calls his old college buddy who’s also a white male, rather than a black female colleague who is just as good. And thus, through no fault of their own, non-white-male scientists have a disadvantage in opportunities to be included (and get credit for) good research. If this is occurring, as I believe is quite reasonable to suspect, then perhaps other scientists citing work should provide an incentive for their colleagues to include diverse opinions in their research. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1573 "2017-07-18T14:44:36Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Neither are cool. My parents met on an elevator and I’ve gotten random phone numbers from women at least twice and random women have gotten my phone number at least twice. You don’t set the rules for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1574 "2017-07-18T14:55:55Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > My parents met on an elevator Or that’s what they told you, at least. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1575 "2017-07-18T14:58:38Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > My parents met on an elevator and I’ve gotten random phone numbers from women at least twice and random women have gotten my phone number at least twice. You don’t set the rules for everybody. No one’s setting any rules – just making recommendations. Some (but not all) women feel threatened and fearful if they are approached in an enclosed space like an elevator, especially if it’s late at night. I’m married now, but even were I single, I’d be happy to forego a small amount of opportunities to meet someone in an elevator just to make sure that I avoid making women feel threatened and fearful. Everyone has that choice to make – and I’d hope that you and others would make a similar calculus to me, but I don’t think the law should change to make it mandatory. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1576 "2017-07-18T15:14:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If this is occurring, as I believe is quite reasonable to suspect, then perhaps other scientists citing work should provide an incentive for their colleagues to include diverse opinions in their research. Ever hear that old joke about the guy looking for his lost keys under a streetlight who lost them somewhere else but was looking there because the light was better? You go where the science is, period, not where the science matches the 21st century American liberal obsession with population demographics. As long as the science is sound, I don’t care if the lab that produces it is all Russian, all Brazilian, all Zimbabwean, all communist, all Moslem, all heterosexual, all male, all female, all black lesbian transgendered paraplegic wiccans, or any mix of the above. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1577 "2017-07-18T15:24:31Z")
The black lesbian transgendered paraplegic Wiccan community is woefully underrepresented in the STEM fields. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1578 "2017-07-18T16:05:54Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Ever hear that old joke about the guy looking for his lost keys under a streetlight who lost them somewhere else but was looking there because the light was better? You go where the science is, period, not where the science matches the 21st century American liberal obsession with population demographics. > > As long as the science is sound, I don’t care if the lab that produces it is all Russian, all Brazilian, all Zimbabwean, all communist, all Moslem, all heterosexual, all male, all female, all black lesbian transgendered paraplegic wiccans, or any mix of the above. I think it’s reasonable to suggest that researchers consider looking for partners and cites in research conducted by diverse teams – they may find that they’ve been missing a lot of good science just because they’ve been unintentionally biased towards white male colleagues. I think this approach might greatly improve science over the long run. I’d agree with “going where the science is” – and I think it’s possible that, due to unconscious bias, a lot of scientists have been missing out on some of those places and people. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1579 "2017-07-18T17:17:19Z")
I’m having a hard time imagining how researchers even _know_ the race of people who’s work they’re citing. I suppose some “non-white” names are obvious, but for the most part unless you go looking for white people to cite you’re not going to know. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1580 "2017-07-18T17:22:35Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think it’s reasonable to suggest that researchers consider looking for partners and cites in research conducted by diverse teams – they may find that they’ve been missing a lot of good science just because they’ve been unintentionally biased towards white male colleagues. > > I think this approach might greatly improve science over the long run. I’d agree with “going where the science is” – and I think it’s possible that, due to unconscious bias, a lot of scientists have been missing out on some of those places and people. The researchers I know go looking for people who are not assholes, who get shit done, and who are effective at collaborating so that submissions are done in time for the 3 year review cycle at the university. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443.md?page=78) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443.md?page=80)