# Stupid Social Justice Warrior Bullshit O' the Day. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443 "2017-03-17T22:14:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 83
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1641 "2017-07-21T15:04:40Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > What I don’t get is this: > > If I’m busy sciencing, and there’re no indicators of someone’s gender nor of their skin tone included in the articles I’m using, how am I suppose to activate my preferential bias for folks of a certain gender or skin color? > > Do I have to track the authors down on sciencey social media before I can continue my research in a properly biased manner? It’s not about what you do, it’s about who gets to do the research in the first place. I have diverse friends all over academia, and career advancement is not as merit-based as some want to believe. There are barriers for women and people of color that have nothing to do with their qualifications and everything to do with social attitudes toward them. I’ve had more than one female friend who had to deal with pervy advisors who used them as scapegoats for their own fuckups. But if we go much farther down that road we’d be on a whole other subject: how easy it is to exploit and manipulate graduate students. This unfairness is what (sane) proponents of diversity in science are pointing out. I’m sure there are some whackjobs proposing we discount research by white people, but they are whackjobs that diminish the overall validity of this totally legitimate concept. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1642 "2017-07-21T15:47:26Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It’s not about what you do, it’s about who gets to do the research in the first place. No, science _is_ about what you do. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1643 "2017-07-21T16:21:09Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > No, science _is_ about what you do. You may misunderstand my point. It’s not about what _PatriotX_ does while ‘‘sciencing.’’ He’s not obligated to check the race or gender of the people whose research he is drawing from. His only obligation, as a scientist, is to check the quality of the research. The issue is about disproportionate representation in the sciences on the basis of discrimination. The obligation is to transform academic culture into one that doesn’t tolerate discrimination. But as I said, doing that is an uphill battle, given how much power and control is aggregated in the hands of a few in academic circles, and how easy it is to break your career when you stand up for yourself. Part of the issue of having not-diverse researchers is that while the scientific method itself is not biased, people frame hypotheses based on assumptions that may be purely culturally driven. This matters less in the case of theoretical physics, but far more in the case of, say, mental health treatment. People coming from diverse backgrounds widen the overall scope of what is being studied, and the different angles from which it is studied. This is ideal. Case in point, when I was a student at U of M my husband worked with an Asian-American researcher who studied concepts of self among white, Chinese-American and Chinese populations. He had a unique cultural insight into the general mindset of Chinese people that enabled him to frame his hypotheses in a way that no white American probably ever would have considered. And he was uniquely equipped, from that cultural vantage point, to operationally define certain concepts better than a white person would. Do you not see the obvious advantage to the scientific community at large? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1644 "2017-07-21T16:32:07Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > He’s not obligated to check the race or gender of the people whose research he is drawing from. But that is exactly what the article that triggered this sub-thread is advocating. From the abstract of the paper (the rest is hidden behind a paywall.) > [@](#): > > An increasing amount of scholarship in critical, feminist, and anti-racist geographies has recently focused self-reflexively on the topics of exclusion and discrimination within the discipline itself. In this article we contribute to this literature by considering citation as a problematic technology that contributes to the reproduction of the white heteromasculinity of geographical thought and scholarship, despite advances toward more inclusivity in the discipline in recent decades. Yet we also suggest, against citation counting and other related neoliberal technologies that imprecisely approximate measures of impact, influence, and academic excellence, citation thought conscientiously can also be a feminist and anti-racist technology of resistance that demonstrates engagement with those authors and voices we want to carry forward. We argue for a conscientious engagement with the politics of citation as a geographical practice that is mindful of how citational practices can be a tool for either the reification of, or resistance to, unethical hierarchies of knowledge production. We offer practical and conceptual reasons for carefully thinking through the role of citation as a performative embodiment of the reproduction of geographical thought. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1645 "2017-07-21T16:35:02Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > But that is exactly what the article that triggered this sub-thread is advocating. From the abstract of the paper (the rest is hidden behind a paywall.) That’s written in irritating academic jargon, sure, but nowhere there do they say, “don’t cite white dudes.” They’re not calling for fewer data. Do you understand what they’re actually calling for? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1646 "2017-07-21T16:38:47Z")
Good god that is terribly written. I have no idea what they’re actually calling for. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1647 "2017-07-21T16:39:00Z")
Here’s the only actual call I can find: > [@](#): > > Scholars should read through their work and count all the citations before submitting their work for publication, and see how many people of diverse backgrounds — women, people of color, early-career scholars, graduate students and non-academics — are cited. So, get more data. They don’t say to trim the white dudes. They don’t say to substitute lesser works by non-academics. They say to pay attention to what you’re doing; gather your own data on how you’re working. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1648 "2017-07-21T19:30:50Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > But that is exactly what the article that triggered this sub-thread is advocating. From the abstract of the paper (the rest is hidden behind a paywall.) Sorry, I was building on the general argument in favor of diversity in science rather than that specific claim/paper. I came into the middle of the conversation so I thought that’s what **PatriotX** was responding to. I don’t mean to be confusing; it’s just a gift. [QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Scholars should read through their work and count all the citations before submitting their work for publication, and see how many people of diverse backgrounds — women, people of color, early-career scholars, graduate students and non-academics — are cited. [/QUOTE] Okay, but then as **PatriotX** points out, how is that realistically possible? Should every author of every cite be googled and demographically catalogued? Is that a reasonable expectation? How do we even determine who is an ‘‘early-career scholar’’ with accuracy? Why would an academic paper cite a non-academic source? This feels weirdly like asking people to catalogue the outcome of publication inequality, not do any actual thing to create a more equal society. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1649 "2017-07-21T19:36:57Z")
Black New York Times reporter accuses white women in New York City of racism for not getting out of his way when he walks down the sidewalk. > **[NY Times reporter accuses white women of racism on city sidewalks](https://thehill.com/homenews/media/343073-ny-times-reporter-accuses-white-women-of-racism-on-city-sidewalks/)** > > The New York Times is facing blowback on social media after publishing an essay by an African-American reporter who accused white women of racism for not ceding space on city sidewalks to black men… ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1650 "2017-07-21T20:04:06Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Black New York Times reporter accuses white women in New York City of racism for not getting out of his way when he walks down the sidewalk. > [http://thehill.com/homenews/media/343073-ny-times-reporter-accuses-white-women-of-racism-on-city-sidewalks](http://thehill.com/homenews/media/343073-ny-times-reporter-accuses-white-women-of-racism-on-city-sidewalks) Nah, wouldn’t qualify this as SJW. Besides your statement is a bit unfair, as it is not that he states that white women should make way for him, just that it is white women that always plow straight ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1651 "2017-07-21T20:18:06Z")
Just out of curiosity, what is that [on top](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/was-that-racist.html) of tall, black Marques’s coffee? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1652 "2017-07-21T20:24:00Z")
**Darren** , I used to work in Midtown. I think the answer is ‘‘delicious.’’ ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1653 "2017-07-21T20:47:10Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Just out of curiosity, what is that [on top](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/was-that-racist.html) of tall, black Marques’s coffee? It looks like a Starbucks chocolate croissant. I’ve had them, they’re delicious. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1654 "2017-07-21T22:12:25Z")
Someone said that [the movie Dunkirk, in some people’s eyes, may not have featured enough people of color, or women.](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/19/dunkirk-review-in-usa-today-warns-no-lead-actors-o/) Well, yes - because most of the people in the army stranded at Dunkirk were white men… (To be fair, the rest of that author’s review of the movie was positive.) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1655 "2017-07-22T14:48:13Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Someone said that [the movie Dunkirk, in some people’s eyes, may not have featured enough people of color, or women.](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/19/dunkirk-review-in-usa-today-warns-no-lead-actors-o/) > > Well, yes - because most of the people in the army stranded at Dunkirk were white men… > > (To be fair, the rest of that author’s review of the movie was positive.) Don’t forget ageism. Except for the skipper on the _Moonstone_ and the Commander wandering around on the quay, everybody’s so _young_. True, Michael Caine played the flight leader, but you never see his face – too old I imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1656 "2017-07-24T15:48:41Z")
Are you a [marble supremacist](https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2017/07/24/does-admiration-for-white-marble-antiquities-derive-from-racism/#comments)? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1657 "2017-07-24T17:22:06Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Are you a [marble supremacist](https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2017/07/24/does-admiration-for-white-marble-antiquities-derive-from-racism/#comments)? Oh, dear. I like them colored, though. I agree with the commenter who wants to see art in its original form. Was Michelangelo’s _David_\* originally colored? I didn’t think it was, which would invalidate that point, no? \*I’ve seen it in person. Amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1658 "2017-07-24T17:33:09Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Was Michelangelo’s _David_\* originally colored? I didn’t think it was, which would invalidate that point, no? Speaking a little off the cuff here, but I’m thinking that the fact that the ancient Greeks and Romans used to paint their statues was forgotten for a long time. Michelangelo might have left David unpainted because people at the time thought that was the way the ancients did it. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1659 "2017-07-24T18:31:00Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Speaking a little off the cuff here, but I’m thinking that the fact that the ancient Greeks and Romans used to paint their statues was forgotten for a long time. Michelangelo might have left David unpainted because people at the time thought that was the way the ancients did it. That’s what I figured. There was a comment to the effect of, ''Would color really improve upon Michelangelo’s _David_?" Well, no, it likely would not, but David was created intentionally colorless, so it’s not an apt comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443/1660 "2017-07-24T18:39:50Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Are you a [marble supremacist](https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2017/07/24/does-admiration-for-white-marble-antiquities-derive-from-racism/#comments)? For crying out loud… The Ancient Egyptians used [black stone](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Menkaura.jpg) (granite, basalt, etc…) for much of their sculptural work and I’ve yet to hear of anyone complain about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443.md?page=82) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-social-justice-warrior-bullshit-o-the-day/782443.md?page=84)