# Stupid Superhero question.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 6, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301 "2004-09-06T04:07:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/41 "2004-09-07T05:51:59Z")
Wait, what? Vibranium has acidic qualities? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/42 "2004-09-07T05:54:09Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > Geo-Force is more like the Human Torch. He uses his lava blast power to fly like a rocket. OK, either you mean he uses the lava blasts to propel himself, or Brion really, really needs to learn to use his powers more efficiency…nul-grav with lava-blast propulsion (what I assumed he was doing, combined with the power he uses (noticably) like, 2 times over the 20-odd Outsiders issues I’ve reread reacently) would make sense, and be a lot easier to control. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/43 "2004-09-07T06:06:21Z")
**Aesiron.** Not quite. Vibranium forged blades, claws, knives and such can puncture, rend or cut through other metals depending on how much force is applied. Vibranium blunt objects can presumably batter other metals, although the most resistant still seems to be Captain America’s proto-adamantium shield, adamantium, secondary adamantium and uru metals. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/44 "2004-09-07T06:14:39Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > **Mockingbird.** Your definition is technically correct but the two vibranium types seemed to have blurred properties considerabley since Christopher Priest’s run on Black Panther. Wakandan vibranium appears to both absorb force and weaken cohesive molecular bonds. I was going by memory from the Deluxe Handbook of the Marvel Universe. As soon as I find the right issue, I’m going to put the exact definitions for it from that time in a post. Christopher Priest is a very sloppy writer. His few issues on Wonder Woman were bland and tedious. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/45 "2004-09-07T06:14:43Z")
If it weakens the bonds between molecules, isn’t it basically just a metal lightsabre or a hot knife to everything else’s butter? ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/46 "2004-09-07T06:40:01Z")
I just checked the Deluxe Handbook of the Marvel Universe #14. Wakandan Vibranium absorbs vibrations and becomes denser and harder to destroy as it absorbs vibrations. Savage Land Vibranium causes the molecular bonds of metal to weaken and inevitably liquify. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/47 "2004-09-07T06:59:49Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > If it weakens the bonds between molecules, isn’t it basically just a metal lightsabre or a hot knife to everything else’s butter? Now I’m imagining Wolverine starring in an ad for The Adamantium Kitchen Knife Set on QVC. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/48 "2004-09-07T12:23:12Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Not in so many words, but look at the scene in **Superman** where he takes Lois flying. He doesn’t have to carry her; as long as their fingers stay in touch, she flies alongside him just swell. As soon as she loses contact, she drops like a stone. > > He lifts a helicoptor by one of its runners. I don’t care how strong you are, if you try that in real life and have the requisite muscle, the runner will bend until it snaps. Limited telekinesis is the only explanation. > > In **Superman 2** , the Negative Zone villains throw a bus across the street at Superman. It doesn’t travel in the sort of parabolic arc trajectory that any object you or I might toss would travel at a comparable speed or distance; it travels in a straight line until it hits its intended target. This tells us two things: Kryptonians use telekinesis to augment their strength, and the Negative Zone villains have had a lot longer to hone it than Ka-El has. I think you’re just being too generous thinking that the writers actually thought the physics out. If they wanted the audience to think that he flew by telekinesis, they wouldn’t have been so subtle about it; after all, these are the same people who had Superman flying _really_ fast around Earth so that it’d spin backwards and reverse time. Science was not their strongest point, so expecting them to notice what should have happened with the bus and helicopter is, I feel, expecting too much. I think the only bone they threw the audience for telekinesis was in Superman IV, when Nuclear Man had stuck a bunch of folk up in the air and Supes lowered them by just lookin’ at 'em. Everything else is less canon than “Hey, we have a bunch of money! What can we do with this bus?” ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/49 "2004-09-07T12:49:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The comic book version is just as broad. Unless adamantium is a ferrous metal, Magneto has more range of power than “magnetic fields”, considering that he _pulled_ the adamantium right out of Wolverine’s bones… 1. Adamantium is a ferrous metal–it was an attempt to duplicate Cap’s shield (which is NOT adamantium, despite the incorrect entry in the Marvel Handbook) and as Cap’s shield is a unique mix of Wakandian vibranium and steel that’s never been duplicated, it stands to reason that adamantium also includes steel. 1a) There are two varieties of adamantium: “real” adamantium, which _cannot_ be broken. Galactus with the cosmic cube doesn’t have the muscle-power to break it. (Dissolve it? sure. Reshape it’s molecules? No prob. But it cannot be broken) and “secondary adamantium”: reaching for your collection to scream “But wait! What about issue such-and-such where someone broke an adamantium girder?” it was secondary adamantium-the only difference between the two is that the secondary stuff can be broken with enough force. 1. The “resin” stuff for Adamantium was Jim Shooter’s idea and when Shooter got booted from Marvel, so did that idea. For what it’s worth, every other writer since Shooter has mocked the “adamantium is plastic” thing. 2. Back on topic, sort of, Magneto can affect non-ferrous metals because if you generate a strong enough magnetic field, you can affect anything. There was a real-world story about [frog that was levitated](http://www.hfml.sci.kun.nl/froglev.html) in a high enough magnetic field. The “pull himself up by his bootstraps 'cause his costume is metal” thing was a fairly late development (X-Men #150 ish) And sadly, he already has the “anything the writer wants” power–he’s mind controlled people by controlling the flowof iron rich blood to their brains, (Avengers #110), he’s supressed nuclear explosions (or reactions…I don’t remember which), etc. 3. I firmly agree with **Mockingbird** about the distinction between the two metals–they’re from two different sources, from two different comics (FF #55 and Daredevil umm…15?) and are only named the same thing because Stan Lee was sloppy too. If Priest is blurring the boundaries between the two, without it being a plot point, he’s being very, very sloppy. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/50 "2004-09-07T17:23:01Z")
Fenris: > [@](#): > > Galactus with the cosmic cube doesn’t have the muscle-power to break it. I doubt that that’s true. We’ve seen Thor crack Ultron’s adamantium body with his hammer. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/51 "2004-09-07T17:41:37Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > I doubt that that’s true. We’ve seen Thor crack Ultron’s adamantium body with his hammer. Then that particular Ultron was made of secondary adamantium. 🙂 There actually _have_ been Ultrons made of the stuff–when you see hordes of Ultrons, most of 'em are made with the secondary stuff (or the heroes would lose). I believe that there’s actually a bit where Busiek has a character (Jarvis, perhaps?) say on panel something like “If physical force cracks or breaks it under _any_ circumstances, it’s secondary adamantium.” just to settle the argument, which had been raging for weeks on rec.arts.comics.marvel-universe! (In the same story, he also had Jarvis say that Cap’s shield wasn’t adamantium, and cleared up a few other of Busiek’s pet peeves that he was debating about on the newsgroup. Proving that Busiek is as big of a fanboy as the next guy!) ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/52 "2004-09-07T20:28:55Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Then that particular Ultron was made of secondary adamantium. 🙂 There actually _have_ been Ultrons made of the stuff–when you see hordes of Ultrons, most of 'em are made with the secondary stuff (or the heroes would lose). > > I believe that there’s actually a bit where Busiek has a character (Jarvis, perhaps?) say on panel something like “If physical force cracks or breaks it under _any_ circumstances, it’s secondary adamantium.” just to settle the argument, which had been raging for weeks on rec.arts.comics.marvel-universe! (In the same story, he also had Jarvis say that Cap’s shield wasn’t adamantium, and cleared up a few other of Busiek’s pet peeves that he was debating about on the newsgroup. Proving that Busiek is as big of a fanboy as the next guy!) So, the entry in the Handbook of the Marvel Universe is wrong? There is no adamantium in Cap’s shield? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/53 "2004-09-07T21:01:20Z")
> [@Mockingbird](#): > > So, the entry in the Handbook of the Marvel Universe is wrong? > > There is no adamantium in Cap’s shield? Correct. We _saw_ adamantium invented, on panel, in Avengers #66 or so (about 1968, or, by the 7 or 10 or whatever year timeline, would have been about 8 years ago). Cap’s shield was made in the early '40s. Busiek got so tired of arguing about the faulty Handbook entry, that he had used Jarvis as a mouthpiece to point-blank flatly state that Cap’s shield was a unique combination of steel and vibranium and adamantium was an attempt to replicate some of the properties (the strength of the stuff, but not the vibration absorbing properties) of Cap’s shield. See (I think) Avengers Annual 2001 (or 2002?). I’m pretty sure that Jarvis/Busiek even addresses the “faulty entry” thing. Things had gotten pissy on rec.arts.comics.marvel-universe at the time and a couple of people were telling Busiek “You can say what you want, but until it appears in print _on panel_ (and not on a letter page or something), what you say isn’t canned, even though you’re the current writer of Avengers and our position contradicts a bunch of other stuff.” Hence that three page Jarvis back-up story which is pretty much an excuse to correct errors and do it in print and on-panel! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/54 "2004-09-07T23:53:15Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > 1. I firmly agree with **Mockingbird** about the distinction between the two metals–they’re from two different sources, from two different comics (FF #55 and Daredevil umm…15?) and are only named the same thing because Stan Lee was sloppy too. If Priest is blurring the boundaries between the two, without it being a plot point, he’s being very, very sloppy. I somewhat agree, with the caveat that it doesn’t _have_ to be a plot point – it can be alluded to, or be just an aside – as long as its addressed. Priest can be accused of having several other bad comic book writer habits, but being sloppy isn’t usually one of them. Besides, the book went through at LEAST three editors who never called him on it, so you can’t lay it all on Priest. His Black Panther, nonetheless, possessed vibranium weaponry that exhibited properties unique to the Savage Land variety as well as the Wakandan kind. So either T’Challa used both types of vibranium in his costuming and weaponry, and Priest just never spelled that out that little factoid, or Wakandan vibranium has been blurred to possess properties of Savage Land vibranium. Here’s my own No-Prize explanation: given the technological advances of Wakandan society, I posit a relatively simple and inexpensive refinment technique in the ore-extraction process where Wakandan vibranium is mined and physically altered to weapons-grade quality to make it mimick the properties of Savage Land vibranium while simultaneously retaining the properties of Wakandan vibranium, thus making it more valuable to use and desirable to own. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/55 "2004-09-08T01:56:26Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > I think you’re just being too generous thinking that the writers actually thought the physics out. If they wanted the audience to think that he flew by telekinesis, they wouldn’t have been so subtle about it; after all, these are the same people who had Superman flying _really_ fast around Earth so that it’d spin backwards and reverse time. I think the point of that was that once Superman flew faster than light he started moving backwards through time, so the Earth _appeared_ to spin backwards from his POV. ---
**Author:** ![xvxdarkknightxvx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/34f0e0/32.png) [@xvxdarkknightxvx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xvxdarkknightxvx)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/56 "2004-09-08T02:06:04Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > I think the point of that was that once Superman flew faster than light he started moving backwards through time, so the Earth _appeared_ to spin backwards from his POV. Yeah, I thought he was just using the earth like a giant merry go-round. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/57 "2004-09-08T02:43:55Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > I somewhat agree, with the caveat that it doesn’t _have_ to be a plot point – it can be alluded to, or be just an aside – as long as its addressed. Priest can be accused of having several other bad comic book writer habits, but being sloppy isn’t usually one of them. Besides, the book went through at LEAST three editors who never called him on it, so you can’t lay it all on Priest. > > His Black Panther, nonetheless, possessed vibranium weaponry that exhibited properties unique to the Savage Land variety as well as the Wakandan kind. > > So either T’Challa used both types of vibranium in his costuming and weaponry, and Priest just never spelled that out that little factoid, or Wakandan vibranium has been blurred to possess properties of Savage Land vibranium. > > Here’s my own No-Prize explanation: given the technological advances of Wakandan society, I posit a relatively simple and inexpensive refinment technique in the ore-extraction process where Wakandan vibranium is mined and physically altered to weapons-grade quality to make it mimick the properties of Savage Land vibranium while simultaneously retaining the properties of Wakandan vibranium, thus making it more valuable to use and desirable to own. Here’s another explanation: T’Challa, one of the world’s richest men, realizes that his country has exactly one commercial asset and goes to reasonable lengths to acquire any vibranium that turns up outside his borders so he can corner the market on it. He can’t mine or synthesize Antarctic vibranium, but he can buy as much of it as turns up on the market. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301/58 "2004-09-08T05:00:35Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > I think the point of that was that once Superman flew faster than light he started moving backwards through time, so the Earth _appeared_ to spin backwards from his POV. Ahh… see, _that_ makes much more sense. Now whom do I blame for that mistake? Oh, yeah… **Miss Teschmacher!** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-superhero-question/263301.md?page=2)