# Stupid/Useless rules your work has that nobody follows **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 22, 2019, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007 "2019-02-22T10:52:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/41 "2019-02-22T20:57:34Z")
Yup, we have the internet rule. I promise I was watching the Washington Capitals online last night because I thought it might have an influence on world financial markets. On the night shift, no one bothers wearing their badges either. Although, we do have to carry them to go from floor to floor, enter and leave the building, and get access to the night shift area. I worked at a standardized testing center which didn’t allow phones with cameras, this was around 2005, pre smart phone, but almost every new phone had a camera. I was a supervisor but kept my camera phone well hidden and only used in the bathroom. At another previous job in financial services, you were supposed to declare any outside jobs. Now, I can understand a conflict of interest if you’re working for two finance firms, but a lot of people were recent college graduates and held minor jobs on the side. One guy worked as a bartender in a popular nightclub, not for the money really but to meet women. Another guy played in a bar band. Heck, even the manager raced motorcycles and worked as a part time motorcycle mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/42 "2019-02-22T20:59:15Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Does anyone here work somewhere that DOES NOT have a rule that essentially says that using company internet resources for anything other than official work is verboten and can get you fired? > … When I first started working in the stone ages (our office had ZERO PCs in 1986), the rule was NO use of work equipment for personal business. If you had to make a phone call (this was before cellphones, too), you were expected to take the elevator down to the lobby and use a pay phone. I remember an ethics training film, where some poor schmuck got in trouble for photocopying his kids’ birthday party invites, and leaving the original on the copier! (The film didn’t comment in the idea of the poor kid sending out photocopied invites! :D) Of course, everyone violated those all the time. Over the years we all got PCs, and then the internet. Now, the rule is more reasonable, saying “reasonable use” that does not interfere w/ work duties is allowed. Applies to phone, copier, or internet. There are specific exclusions: porn of course, chain letters, personal e-mail and social media (which I think is blocked anyway), no downloading of audio/visual files, no plugging personal drives/devices into the computer. But nothing to preclude my checking into the Dope! ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/43 "2019-02-22T21:08:40Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > I walk through the lab wearing open-toe shoes. I’m pretty sure our dress code still forbids the wearing of open-toe shoes without stockings or panyhose, with no mention made of an exception during hot weather. In North Carolina. Yeah, that gets ignored pretty routinely. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/44 "2019-02-22T21:30:59Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I think an employee who sued an employer for firing, or otherwise disciplining him or her for carrying a cellphone to take emergency button phone calls from his or her elderly infirm relative would be looked on favorably by the courts. If not, the local television news would probably be interested in the story. If they fired you for that reason, _maybe._:dubious: But in a at will state, they could just terminate you with no cause given. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/45 "2019-02-22T21:35:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If they fired you for that reason, _maybe._:dubious: But in a at will state, they could just terminate you with no cause given. Agreed. That’s what’s wrong with capital/labor relations today. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/46 "2019-02-22T21:37:25Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Does anyone here work somewhere that DOES NOT have a rule that essentially says that using company internet resources for anything other than official work is verboten and can get you fired? > > Everywhere I’ve worked has had some sort of policy like that on the books, and usually made us sign a copy of it. > . No actually the last two companies said “reasonable” personal use was Ok: no going to sketchy sites, dating prono, etc, no downloads, etc, pretty reasonable. No social media was a common one. In other words, you could buy something on amazon or check your ebay auction, and of course LinkedIn was Ok. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/47 "2019-02-22T21:49:24Z")
Yeah my internet rules have always been reasonable or de minimis. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/48 "2019-02-22T22:05:46Z")
> [@JcWoman](#): > > This made me remember the company I used to work for that bought phone headsets for all the managers and customer service folks but nobody else. They acted like they were made of solid gold and priced accordingly. So all the managers who rarely used the phone had them, but the business analysts who were constantly on conference calls with clients had to get neck cramps holding handsets between ear and shoulder. This is the stupidest policy I’ve personally encountered. What astonishes me is how MANY places I’ve seen it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/49 "2019-02-22T23:12:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If they fired you for that reason, _maybe._:dubious: But in a at will state, they could just terminate you with no cause given. At least if they term you without cause, you get to collect unemployment. And that means that their unemployment insurance rate will go up. Terminating without cause is not a common practice, as it is quite costly to a business. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/50 "2019-02-22T23:18:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > At least if they term you without cause, you get to collect unemployment. > > And that means that their unemployment insurance rate will go up. > > Terminating without cause is not a common practice, as it is quite costly to a business. It’s actually by far the most common. “Cause” is hard to prove and is subject to lawsuits. “At will” is almost impossible to sue, unless it’s racist or retaliation for whistleblowing etc. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/51 "2019-02-22T23:50:47Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > If there isn’t, there ought to be. > > Why are you in favor of infirm relatives lying on the floor in their own piss for hours on end? That needn’t happen. The button would be routed to local EMTs, who could pick up the elderly relative and assess for injuries. That is probably the best option, anyway, so if the fall was caused by a stroke, or a bone is broken, they can take the elder to the hospital immediately. In my experience, EMTs are happy to do the pick up elders and assess service. Have a number at the office – manager? HR? other? posted in the home and on a bracelet on the elder’s wrist so you can be immediately notified. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/52 "2019-02-23T00:04:19Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > That needn’t happen. The button would be routed to local EMTs, who could pick up the elderly relative and assess for injuries. That is probably the best option, anyway, so if the fall was caused by a stroke, or a bone is broken, they can take the elder to the hospital immediately. In my experience, EMTs are happy to do the pick up elders and assess service. Have a number at the office – manager? HR? other? posted in the home and on a bracelet on the elder’s wrist so you can be immediately notified. Granted, and one time the paramedics beat me home, and broke the back window getting inside. Another time I reached home just as police were about to break down the door. It turned out there that Mom had pushed the button by accident and could not hear the emergency operator ask if she needed help, so they notified police. Yes, I had a regular caretaker coming in, but it was on a charity program and we were only allowed four hours a day. So the three hour gaps before and after, I had no choice but to leave Mom by herself. Obviously, as we were renting tenants, it would not be optimal to have rescue squads breaking down doors every two weeks or so. It wasn’t a pretty picture, and it’s all over now. Anyway, it’s not really relevant to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/53 "2019-02-23T00:13:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It’s actually by far the most common. “Cause” is hard to prove and is subject to lawsuits. “At will” is almost impossible to sue, unless it’s racist or retaliation for whistleblowing etc. [It’s actually not.](https://www.thebalancecareers.com/top-reasons-for-getting-fired-2060732) Well, unless you are counting layoffs and other terminations where unemployment of severance would be expected. > [@from cite](#): > > That said, most employers won’t fire an employee without cause. Most firings are considered termination for cause, which means the employee is fired for a specific reason It’s easy to prove cause. Keep an attendance record, keep metrics on performance, keep track of disciplinary actions. It may be hard to prove for lazy or incompetent businesses, but anyone with a lick of sense will follow proper procedures in severing employment. I’ve had ex-employees try to collect unemployment on me on a few occasions, and when I show the agent from Jobs and Family Services my records on what led to their termination, they deny the claim, every time, because I fired them with cause. (One quit and tried to collect unemployment. I’m not sure why she wasn’t just laughed out of the offices.) If I told them that I fired my employee because it is an at will state, and I don’t need cuase to fire them, then they would authorize the unemployment payout, and my unemployment insurance would go up. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/54 "2019-02-23T00:42:06Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > [It’s actually not.](https://www.thebalancecareers.com/top-reasons-for-getting-fired-2060732) Well, unless you are counting layoffs and other terminations where unemployment of severance would be expected. > > It’s easy to prove cause. Keep an attendance record, keep metrics on performance, keep track of disciplinary actions. It may be hard to prove for lazy or incompetent businesses, but anyone with a lick of sense will follow proper procedures in severing employment. > … > **[For What Reasons Will an Employer Fire an Employee Immediately?](https://www.thebalancemoney.com/termination-for-cause-1918274)** > > Want to understand termination for a cause? Here are examples of what an employer may consider as grave misconduct that will justify firing an employee. _Termination for cause is serious business. Employers and employees have many reasons for parting ways, but employment termination for cause is not a desirable outcome—for either the employer or the employee. Termination for cause generally occurs when an employee makes a severe error in actions or judgment._ Lazy, incompetence, or poor performance are not “cause”. These are “cause” : Violation of the company code of conduct or ethics policy, Failure to follow company policy, Breach of contract Violence or threatened violence, Threats or threatening behavior, Stealing company money or property, Lying, Falsifying records, Extreme insubordination, Harassment, Failing an alcohol or drug test, A conviction for some crimes, or, Watching pornography online. > **[How to File and Collect Unemployment Benefits in California](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/collecting-unemployment-benefits-california-32504.html)** > > If you're a California worker who's been laid off due to the coronavirus pandemic or for any other reason, you might be eligible for unemployment benefits. Firing. \*If you are fired because you lacked the skills to perform the job or simply weren’t a good fit, you should be able to collect benefits. If you are fired for misconduct, however, you will not be eligible for unemployment benefits. In California, misconduct makes you ineligible for unemployment benefits only if all four of these statements are true: You owed a “material” duty to the employer. This means a duty that is properly part of the job (this can be, for example, showing up for work and performing your job duties). You substantially breached that duty (in other words, you didn’t perform the duty). A minor or one-time transgression isn’t enough to disqualify you from receiving benefits. Your breach of the duty showed a wanton or willful disregard for that duty. In other words, you weren’t just careless or thoughtless but, instead, intentionally violated the duty or showed a reckless disregard for the consequences of your breach of the duty. Inefficiency, inability to perform the job, or good faith errors in judgment don’t meet this standard and won’t render you ineligible for unemployment benefits in California. Your breach of the duty must tend to harm the employer’s business interests.\* ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/55 "2019-02-23T01:37:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > [What Is Termination for Cause?](https://www.thebalancecareers.com/termination-for-cause-1918274) > _Termination for cause is serious business. Employers and employees have many reasons for parting ways, but employment termination for cause is not a desirable outcome—for either the employer or the employee. Termination for cause generally occurs when an employee makes a severe error in actions or judgment._ > > Lazy, incompetence, or poor performance are not “cause”. > > These are “cause” : > Violation of the company code of conduct or ethics policy, > Failure to follow company policy, Like an attendance policy, the way that I’ve lost most of my involuntary separations. > [@](#): > > Breach of contract > Violence or threatened violence, > Threats or threatening behavior, > Stealing company money or property, > Lying, > Falsifying records, > Extreme insubordination, > Harassment, > Failing an alcohol or drug test, > A conviction for some crimes, or, > Watching pornography online. > > [How to File for Unemployment in California | Nolo](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/collecting-unemployment-benefits-california-32504.html) > Firing. \*If you are fired because you lacked the skills to perform the job or simply weren’t a good fit, you should be able to collect benefits. If you are fired for misconduct, however, you will not be eligible for unemployment benefits. In California, misconduct makes you ineligible for unemployment benefits only if all four of these statements are true: > > You owed a “material” duty to the employer. This means a duty that is properly part of the job (this can be, for example, showing up for work and performing your job duties). > You substantially breached that duty (in other words, you didn’t perform the duty). A minor or one-time transgression isn’t enough to disqualify you from receiving benefits. > Your breach of the duty showed a wanton or willful disregard for that duty. In other words, you weren’t just careless or thoughtless but, instead, intentionally violated the duty or showed a reckless disregard for the consequences of your breach of the duty. Inefficiency, inability to perform the job, or good faith errors in judgment don’t meet this standard and won’t render you ineligible for unemployment benefits in California. > Your breach of the duty must tend to harm the employer’s business interests.\* One, that is california, other states do vary. And two, yes, you can document those breaches of duty. Not sure what you are trying to say here. All I said was that if someone was terminated for the reason given by the poster, then that would not be for cause, and that they could collect unemployment. Your claim is that cuase is hard to prove. I say that it is not, and that I have actually, on a few occasions, proved siad cause to the satisfaction of govt agencies, and didn’t get sued in the slightest. You would only get sued for a “cause” should your cause not be properly documented or fraudulent. Can you please let me know what point it is that you are trying to make here, I don’t even know if we are in disagreement, as I don’t know what it is that you are trying to argue. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/56 "2019-02-23T14:56:51Z")
We have sturdy step stools to reach the top shelves in the aisle. When stocking the bottom shelves, there is no sitting allowed on the step stools or the floors. Supposedly, it “looks bad.” Yet we all do it. The only food allowed in the store is kosher food. Supposedly. You can bring in a ham and cheese pizza if it’s in a box and wrapped. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/57 "2019-02-23T16:44:54Z")
One of the places I was a temp at didn’t allow eating at desks. Someone brought in doughnuts and we had to sit in the break room to eat one. No one ignored that one. I never did see eating at desks. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/58 "2019-02-23T16:49:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > One, that is california, other states do vary. > > And two, yes, you can document those breaches of duty. > > Not sure what you are trying to say here. All I said was that if someone was terminated for the reason given by the poster, then that would not be for cause, and that they could collect unemployment. > > Your claim is that cuase is hard to prove. I say that it is not, and that I have actually, on a few occasions, proved siad cause to the satisfaction of govt agencies, and didn’t get sued in the slightest. > > You would only get sued for a “cause” should your cause not be properly documented or fraudulent. I agree. I ran a restaurant in California for seven years, in the late ‘90s and early 2000s. I had to terminate many people during that time. When someone filed for unemployment, I would get a letter from the unemployment office, with a form to contest it. I would write a paragraph or two explaining why I had terminated the employee, and that was good enough for the unemployment office. I don’t recall ever having to back up my statements with proof (though I was prepared to do so). The former employees’ claims were almost always denied. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/59 "2019-02-23T17:16:40Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > On the opposite note, we don’t have a real dress code other than steel toed shoes and no shorts but I had a new assistant for three weeks that still managed to violate it by looking indistinguishable from a homeless person during a really bad week so I had to fire him for that among almost every other offense imaginable. Heh. We have a guy who looks that way at my plant. I like to pretend to myself that he’s an Undercover Boss. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007/60 "2019-02-23T17:44:29Z")
> [@GESancMan](#): > > I agree. I ran a restaurant in California for seven years, in the late ‘90s and early 2000s. I had to terminate many people during that time. When someone filed for unemployment, I would get a letter from the unemployment office, with a form to contest it. I would write a paragraph or two explaining why I had terminated the employee, and that was good enough for the unemployment office. I don’t recall ever having to back up my statements with proof (though I was prepared to do so). The former employees’ claims were almost always denied. Apparently, the former employees did not appeal the decisions. You would have been called to appear at the appeal hearing if they had. Many large employers hire benefits management firms that routinely contest every unemployment claim and routinely appeal every claim that is granted. They know that the typical employee is too intimidated to file an appeal or to show up at an appeal hearing that the employer requests, so this is a successful strategy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-useless-rules-your-work-has-that-nobody-follows/830007.md?page=4)