# Stupid White Men **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 24, 2002, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645 "2002-12-24T01:20:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/1 "2002-12-24T01:20:56Z")
I coulldn’t find a thread about it so I thought it was ok to start one. Recently bought the book and have read the first few chapters. I must say it’s brilliant. The uk-edition’s foreward is good too. Has anyone else read it? What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/2 "2002-12-24T01:22:18Z")
Sorry I didn’t say much. I just wanted to know what people thought before I had time to compose a more er, big, post. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/3 "2002-12-24T01:28:17Z")
Oh I thought you meant the messageboard mentioned in this thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=152327](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=152327) ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/4 "2002-12-24T01:51:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Meatros \* > \*\*Oh I thought you meant the messageboard mentioned in this thread: > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=152327](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=152327) \*\* Nope. Michael Moore’s [Stupid White Men](http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0141011904/ref=sr_aps_books_1_1/202-5908268-8472662) ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/5 "2002-12-24T03:52:40Z")
I enjoyed the book. It really didn’t reveal much to me about the workings of the Evil Empire that I didn’t already know, but I’ve always liked Moore’s sassy, tounge-in-cheek humor. ---
**Author:** ![Reuben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Reuben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reuben)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/6 "2002-12-24T11:02:04Z")
I _love_ Michael Moore’s work, right up to this book. The rampant racism in it just turned me right off … I got pretty angry at his incessant “white=evil” logic punctuating every chapter. I know the point he’s trying to make … to get his readers to wake up to the fact that the biggest roots of society’s many ills are undeniably rich white corporates riding roughshod over everyone else, rather than the non-white urban poverty that traditionally gets blamed. Remember his “Welfare Mothers” chapter from the previous book? That was an eye-opener! But the way he tells it in Stupid White Men, the strong implication is that everything would be oh-so-much better if the corporates in the Fortune 500 were run by non-whites. Personally I don’t think it would make a jot of difference - greed isn’t peculiar to race. That conclusion really pissed me off. But I still love the guy and will continue to buy his books, read his letters, watch his movies, and evangelise him to friends who’ve never heard of him. The world definitely needs a lot more Michael Moores. I just think his anger clouds his judgement sometimes, most obviously in this book. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/7 "2002-12-24T11:26:48Z")
I didn’t like it. I think he’s a very clever man with a lot of very interesting things to say, but I absolutely _hate_ the way everything has to be simplified or dragged down to the level of the playground. I saw him live recently and in addition to making some excellent points he couldn’t help but undermine himself. A song about how stupid Bush is? Wow. Original. The dumb-Bush jokes went on, and on, and on. He even managed to offend a good chunk of the audience with a poorly-phrased point about how 11 September 2001 wouldn’t have happened if the airliners had been carrying African-American passengers only. While there was a salient point there – that white, middle-class Americans (and Britons, presumably) have grown too comfortable in assuming that other people will fix their problems – the way it was put across just came out as crass and designed to shock. That pretty much sums him up for me; usually agree with the gist, but very rarely with the way he puts out the message. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/8 "2002-12-24T13:49:23Z")
**Reuben** , you’ve never come across satire, I see? ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/9 "2002-12-24T15:27:54Z")
There’s satire and there’s a blunt instrument. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/10 "2002-12-24T22:37:44Z")
Well said **gex gez**. Personally this white man agrees with everything he’s read so far in the book. **Crusoe** quit while you are ahead. It _is_ satire and it is _good_ satire. He is not saying everything would be better if black people were employed, he’s saying everything would be better if black people were given exactly the same oportunities as white people. And since it is 1 hour and 22 minutes until christmas, let’s try to keep this thread civilized (not saying anyone is being uncivilized, just pre-emptive warning) ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2002, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/11 "2002-12-24T22:51:36Z")
I, too, love Mr. Moore, but I thought Stupid White Men was really superficial. The essay on Florida was good, his story about his all black staff was very good, but the rest just seemed really lazy… ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/12 "2002-12-25T01:22:46Z")
I used to like Michael Moore. I thought Roger & Me was very witty & funny. Very Letterman-esque. The emphasis seemed to be on the humor & absurdity of the constrating situations. But now, MM is not just a satirist anymore. He’s a true believing socialist. Particularly post-9/11, he really thinks that capitalism is evil. He’s just another far-left democrat blaming the US, white males, the rich (of which I’m sure he’s one by now), Ronald Reagan etc. for all the world’s problems. And still whining about Gore losing in 2000. To be a good satirist your material needs to remain rooted in at least some fact. Moore just spouts statistics and rants about things that bother him without providing any accurate (and in fact often providing very inaccurate) insight as to why it’s wrong. He used to be a kind of left-wing P.J. O’Rourke. Now he’s more like a really lame Andy Rooney. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/13 "2002-12-25T01:41:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \* > \*\*But now, MM is not just a satirist anymore. He’s a true believing socialist. \*\* What’s wrong with being a socialist? ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/14 "2002-12-25T01:51:03Z")
IIRC he’s always been a Red. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/15 "2002-12-25T01:58:43Z")
He doesn’t blame the rich. He blames the stupid and irresponsible with power. (this usually means rich people) ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/16 "2002-12-25T02:23:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lobsang \* > \*\*He doesn’t blame the rich. He blames the stupid and irresponsible with power. (this usually means rich people) \*\* I have a question for you, if rich people are generally stupid how did they get rich? MM went from a guy making a point through satire to a full blown wind bag. I disagreed with his view point all along but I could watch or read his stuff. His latest book is a rant worthy of **Chumpsky**. It seems to me that MM felt the need to go over the top for some reason. Slee ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/17 "2002-12-25T04:28:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sleestak \* > \*\*I have a question for you, if rich people are generally stupid how did they get rich? > \*\* Two words: **Inherited wealth** ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/18 "2002-12-25T04:41:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CaptMurdock \* > \*\*Two words: > > **Inherited wealth** \*\* That is, in fact, not true. Or are you telling me everybody who is rich inherited their wealth? Somebody along the line had to make the money. And, in any case, hanging on to wealth, even if it is inherited, is not easy if you are dumb. A fool and his money are soon parted. I have seen many cases. And Michael Moore is an industrial strength A-hole. I wish he’d shut the hell up. ---
**Author:** ![Reuben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/54ee81/32.png) [@Reuben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reuben)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/19 "2002-12-25T17:15:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > \*\ ***Reuben** , you’ve never come across satire, I see? \*\* Ooh, just what I wanted for Xmas : a patronising comment. Bizarrely enough, as an intelligent adult who likes a laugh I am acquainted with all popular forms of humour. One of Michael Moore’s most attractive features is his uncanny knack for exposing unethical weasel behaviour in a funny way. But - to pick one example - his stated-in-the-book employment practice that he never hires anyone white (IIRC, sadly I do not have the book where I am now) is not satirical, it is monstrously racist and hypocritical. If he was joking about this and has a sane policy in real life, then I confess I completely missed that joke. I read it as a statement of fact. Damn I wish I had the book with me now… there’s a chance I could be whooshed something chronic… someone put me out of my misery. ---
**Author:** ![XPav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/b77776/32.png) [@XPav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XPav)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2002, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645/20 "2002-12-25T20:06:27Z")
I shall direct you to: [http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020403.html](http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020403.html) (and don’t worry, they hit Coulter too \) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-white-men/144645.md?page=2)