# Styx. REO Speedwagon. Toto. ELO. What ARE these people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 26, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109 "2004-05-26T02:43:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/61 "2004-05-27T00:37:56Z")
It’s Arena Rock. ELO does fall squarely in the Arena Rock category. They’re by far the best quality band in the genre, but they’re definitely in it. I think they could fairly also be called art rock, but I’d say that their Arena-ness supersedes their art-ness, if only by a slim margin. To address **Mr. Blue Sky** ’s point: The things that define Arena Rock don’t necessarily have to do with the sound of their shows. Some common features of Arena Rock: –Big, complex songs. The songs are often longer than 4 minutes, and may include either orchestral instruments or lots of multi-layered synthesizer. The songs are supposed to be grand and impressive. Sometimes they just sound melodramatic and cheesy. –The bands usually have more than 4 members. The You need a big band to make big songs, right? –The bands use a lot of synthesizer. Seems like they always have some guy with a multi-sided, multi-tiered synthesizer extravaganza. –The bands are white males. Obviously, rock is a male-dominated form, but Arena rock bands don’t even have female singers. And rock is mostly white. But non-whites are practically nonexisisent in Arena rock. –Really bad hair. Big huge ugly mops of curly hair. Sometimes accessorized with tinted aviator-style glasses. –Related to the bad hair–non-sexual front men. The classic classic rock bands often featured a sexualized and showy front man. Jagger, Daltrey, Plant. This tradition has continued ever since. Many rock bands don’t have such a frongt man, but none of the arena rock bands do. It’s not just that it was out of style at the time–plenty of rock bands that were contemporaries of the arena rock bands had 'em–Van Halen, Aerosmith, AC/DC. –The songs frequently deal with highfalutin’ and/or pseudo-intellectual subject matter–myths, legends, the passage of time. All we are is dust in the wind… –They died with the coming of MTV. I’m sure there are more common features. Those are just off the top of my head. And FWIW, I didn’t know that it was shameful to like Arena Rock. I love it. I don’t think I could listen to the albums of most of the bands, but I love the hits. It is pure unadulterated cheesy fun. Come to think of it, Blue Oyster Cult could be classed as an Arena Rock band. They’re definitely metal, but they do meet the Arena Rock critera. They sure have the big melodramatic song thing going on. I don’t know if it’s apparent if you just know them from their hits (more cowbell!) but if you listen to their albums, they are so completely and hilariously melodramatic that I expect Cheez Wiz to come flying out of the speakers. The golden age of leather? Nosferatu? The last man on earth standing on a beach? Ha! I love Blue Oyster Cult. I see **bdandhr** ’s comment on preview–We do this because it’s fun. We don’t do it because we think it’s _necessary_ for Og’s sake! And the Bay City Rollers? They’re Arena Rock Wannabes. And that’s pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/62 "2004-05-27T00:57:07Z")
I think “Progressive Rock” fits ELO, Boston, Yes, Supertramp, Kansas, Procul Harem, and bands of that ilk. Some are better than others, but they all share complex arrangements, unique instruments (orchestras, string sections, etc). ELO, by the way, was miles better than Journey or Styx. Listen to “Eldorado” sometime. A concept album that worked. Their early stuff still stands the test of time. I’m not a huge fan, but I can recognize the quality. Journey and Foreigner are Stadium Rock, or just pop. Neither band was anything special, although both had absolutely monster albums near the same time (Journey’s ‘Escape’ and Foreigner’s “4” were both huge, huge successes, and both are good albums). Toto is in somewhat of a different category. In terms of musicianship, they are near the top of the class. Almost all of them were highly sought-after session musicians. Their music ran the gamut from very good to crap. ---
**Author:** ![bdandhr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@bdandhr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdandhr)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/63 "2004-05-27T01:27:26Z")
I wasn’t mentioning the Bay City Rollers for any reason but to toss their name in this proverbial “hat.” I apologize for having not read this thread as closely as it called for, but having grown up in the era of most of these band’s wide airplay, I have to admit that I like most of them and their music and own several of their CD’s. I appreciate the individuality that I feel each brings into the mix, although I will admit some of the results are predictable. But what would a band be if one didn’t recognize them right off because of their sound? I also want to throw out there that any band a person has experienced in concert has possibly much more than just their “sound” to cause a person to favoritize them… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/64 "2004-05-27T01:33:23Z")
> [@bdandhr](#): > > But what would a band be if one didn’t recognize them right off because of their sound? That was a problem for the hair-metal bands in the 80’s. They sounded and looked alike. Paraphrased (from the Simpsons?) “We’re Poison.” “I thought we were Whitesnake.” “The drum head says we’re Ratt.” ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/65 "2004-05-27T01:48:23Z")
The word “cheese” in this thread is hereby put on moratorium due to overuse. (And why would you use a word like “cheese” to describe something bad??? Do you hate the food?) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/66 "2004-05-27T02:06:07Z")
I remember calling stuff like ELO “Art Rock” or “Pomp Rock” back in the day. There may be a bit of a distinction between “art” and “pomp,” though. I think “art” rock took itself a little more seriously while “pomp” rock had a bit of campiness to to it- a not-quite-serious pretension. Queen- a band that amazingly seems to have escaped mention in this thread- was probably the greatest art/pomp band ever (IMO). ---
**Author:** ![Club\_33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@Club\_33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Club_33)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/67 "2004-05-27T04:03:39Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > I dislike the phrase ‘Corporate Rock’ because, except for Toto, the bands named really did grow up just like most bands do (Toto being a collection of studio musicians who got together and made things work…kinda like the Eagles). Actually, that isn’t accurate. Three of the members of Toto are brothers. (keys, bass, and drums). The guitarist, Steve Lukather, went to the same high school as the Porcaro brothers and they had all been playing together since their early teens. They weren’t just a bunch of studio musicians thrown together to make a buck. Having said that, **Sam Stone** is absolutely correct that a few of them were heavily in demand session players. Steve Lukather and Jeff Porcaro are considered some of the best studio musicians that there ever were and each contributed to many more popular songs than you would imagine. Sadly, Jeff passed away a few years ago. His dad, Joe Porcaro, (one of my teachers) is still very active in the studio scene. He is playing orchestral percussion on many of the movies that you have probably seen. Anyway, sorry for the nitpicky hijack but I wanted to offer the Straight Dope. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![todd33rpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@todd33rpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/todd33rpm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/68 "2004-05-27T12:06:02Z")
“What are these people?” The _Mystery Science Theater 3000_ version of _Manos_ may have the last word on that. (Paraphrasing to the best of my memory:) JOEL: Hell works better when it’s subtle. For example, what do you think of Adolf Hitler? CROW: Naturally, I hate him. JOEL: Okay, now, what do you think of the rock band Styx? CROW: Well, they had a couple of good songs…hey, wait a minute! Hell Rock. Let’s call it Hell Rock. ---
**Author:** ![mbacko1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@mbacko1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbacko1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/69 "2004-05-27T12:34:11Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > I’ve got it! The common thread! > > There’s a line in a Harry Chapin song of yore where an old black man tells a young kid learning to play the guitar, “Slow down son! That ain’t no damn typewriter you’re playin’. You got to caress it like a woman…” > > All the cited bands play their guitars like typewriters. > > No soul. Sorry, Terry Kath from Chicago had soul. Anybody who Hendrix said “He’s better than me” about is a great guitarist. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/70 "2004-05-27T12:42:43Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > The word “cheese” in this thread is hereby put on moratorium due to overuse. I agree. As a deragatory adjective in general, the word’s become a cringe-inducer. Like hearing a white woman in her 50’s describe something as “funky.” :o ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/71 "2004-05-27T13:04:47Z")
> [@todd33rpm](#): > > “What are these people?” > > The _Mystery Science Theater 3000_ version of _Manos_ may have the last word on that. ObsessiveMST3Kfan: That was from _Teenager from Outer Space_. “Evil is much worse when it works in subtle ways!” ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/72 "2004-05-27T14:54:22Z")
> [@Mr. Miskatonic](#): > > ObsessiveMST3Kfan: That was from _Teenager from Outer Space_. > > “Evil is much worse when it works in subtle ways!” [Homer as Ulysses on the River Styx as “Lady” plays in the background]Oh, this really is Hades![/HAUORSLPB] ---
**Author:** ![todd33rpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@todd33rpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/todd33rpm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/73 "2004-05-27T15:00:34Z")
Ha HA! I’m more obsessed! MORE, I TELL YOU, MORE!!! Sorry…I actually meant _Eegah!_. That’s where the whole “subtle forms of hell” discussion I was thinking about took place, in a host segment. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/74 "2004-05-27T16:17:45Z")
This thread has really got me thinking that I really like most of these bands, but I don’t have any of their albums. I bet there’s one of those compilation CDs out there with all these bands. However, I was thinking I’d like to make one of my own… So, help me out here…what would your ultimate compliation CD of all these bands be? Make it maybe 20-25 songs. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/75 "2004-05-27T17:00:06Z")
I’ve the heard the term “hair band” used to describe these groups, but that refers to their look, not their sound. Part of the problem with naming this genre, as others have mentioned, is that most of the music was rather generic. I just call it “70’s/80’s Rock.” ELO and Pink Floyd are definitely Art Rock bands, however. ---
**Author:** ![Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/839c29/32.png) [@Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phedre_no_Delaunay)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/76 "2004-05-27T17:49:53Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Part of the problem with naming this genre, as others have mentioned, is that most of the music was rather generic. You know this is a good point. But I think it’s mostly because music wasn’t as compartmentalized back in those days. Today just about every radio station plays some subset of popular music…adult contemporary, soft rock, hard rock, metal, classic rock, alternative rock, hip-hop, etc. But back in those days, you didn’t have so much of that. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/77 "2004-05-27T19:10:36Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > So, help me out here…what would your ultimate compliation CD of all these bands be? Make it maybe 20-25 songs. **Eight-Track Breakout** 1. REO Speedwagon, _Ridin’ the Storm Out_ 2. Toto, _Rosanna_ 3. Grand Funk Railroad, _We’re an American Band_ 4. Grand Funk Railroad, _Some Kind of Wonderful_ 5. Supertramp, _Goodbye Stranger_ 6. Boston, _More Than a Feeling_ 7. Journey, _Don’t Stop Believin’_ 8. Electric Light Orchestra, _El Dorado_ 9. Electric Light Orchestra, _Don’t Bring Me Down_ 10. Boston, _Get Organ-ized_ 11. Styx, _Too Much Time on My Hands_ 12. Electric Light Orchestra, _Can’t Get It Out of My Head_ 13. Foreigner, _Cold as Ice_ 14. Foreigner, _Dirty White Boy_ 15. Boston, _Foreplay/Long Time_ 16. Kansas, _Dust in the Wind_ 17. Kansas, _Carry On, My Wayward Son_ 18. Electric Light Orchestra, _Mr. Blue Sky_ 19. Supertramp, _Take the Long Way Home_ 20. REO Speedwagon, _Roll With the Changes_ Long live '70s rock! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/78 "2004-05-27T19:39:49Z")
Thanks **Walloon**! Keep 'em coming guys…what are the best songs by the groups mentioned in the thread? ---
**Author:** ![Kings\_Gambit1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kings\_Gambit1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kings_Gambit1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/79 "2004-05-27T19:46:50Z")
My first concert was Styx/REO Speedwagon in '82. It was awful, just awful! Having said that, I still love “Arena Rock”, “Dinosaur Rock”, “AOR Rock”, or whatever you want to call it. Heck, I still think **Boston’s** first album, and **Forgeigner** 4 are some of the best albums ever made! ---
**Author:** ![vl\_mungo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc8723/32.png) [@vl\_mungo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vl_mungo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109/80 "2004-05-27T20:59:03Z")
I saw **Styx** in 1980, it’s the only time I’ve ever fallen asleep at a show. The last thing I remember is Tommy Shaw playing acoustic guitar. I also saw **Nazareth** about the same time. They were pretty good. I make some pretty serious distinctions between… what I consider _MOR_ (crappy, sappy, music to take valium and do the dishes to) **Journey REO Speedwagon Chicago Night Ranger Styx Air Supply Bon Jovi Toto Pablo Cruise** _Hard Rock_… bands I thought were heavy when I was 12 **Boston Loverboy Foreigner Survivor Def Leppard Dokken Aldo Nova** _Art Rock_ - bands I used to smoke pot and listen to when I was 13 **ELO Queen Pink Floyd Yes** _HellifIknow_ - they’re lame, but don’t seem to fit comfortably in the other categories **Eagles Kansas** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/styx-reo-speedwagon-toto-elo-what-are-these-people/247109.md?page=5)