# Sub tapes 2nd graders' mouths shut. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 23, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007 "2003-02-23T20:07:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dwc1970](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a183cd/32.png) [@dwc1970](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwc1970)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/21 "2003-02-24T18:08:38Z")
One day my third grade teacher made a kid sit in the corner, but facing the class so we could all see his face, with tape over his mouth after repeated warnings to not talk during class. I think he had to sit there for a half hour or so like this. He seemed to take it okay but I would have been humiliated as hell and would have had my parents complain to the school about the incident. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/22 "2003-02-24T21:26:37Z")
It deserves to be in the Pit because this part– > [@](#): > > The school district contacted the Department of Social Services and filed a child endangerment complaint, as required by law when evidence of possible child abuse is found. –is deeply, _deeply_ stupid. It was a _game_, people. [insert multiple bandwidth-hogging rolleyes smilies here] ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/23 "2003-02-24T22:00:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scablet \* > \*\*Stupid, poor judgement, but (assuming the kids DID want their mouths taped) I wouldn’t exactly call this child abuse…Oh, and their hands were free. They could have pulled the tape off if it was really bothering their precious ickle faces. \*\* As another poster stated “it’s not like it was duct tape”. For crying out loud, with masking tape they wouldn’t even have to pull it off with their hands, a decent sized yawn would rip the stuff in two, and as that same poster said “it’s not even very sticky” so it’s not like it would hurt to do so. Sounds like either an overreaction, or we aren’t getting the whole story. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/24 "2003-02-24T22:39:31Z")
Back in the neolithic, when I was in elemenatary school, a time when everyone knew what a typewriter was, and growing up required surviving lawn darts, we used to cover our arms, upper torsos, legs, even _heads_! - everything but the breathing holes - with masking tape and wander around school like mummies. Sometimes you’d have to rip out some hair just to go to your next class. We’d do this a lot before the impromptu freshly fallen pine cone fights. Are you familiar with the hard, prickly, sappy ones? [sub]Yes, it was a ‘gifted’ school.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Psifireus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Psifireus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psifireus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/25 "2003-02-24T23:56:19Z")
What I think is most ridiculous and really sad about this is that they fired this woman immediately. Hell, when a cop discharges his weapon, he is put on “review” until a thorough investigation into the matter is performed, but not fired immediately. I tend to think the only person being abused in this story was the substitute teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Tinkertoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f19dbf/32.png) [@Tinkertoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tinkertoy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/26 "2003-02-25T00:23:05Z")
In first through third grades our teachers used this as punishment frequently. We didn’t like, but it was better than the paddle. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/27 "2003-02-25T00:28:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tinkertoy \* > \*\*In first through third grades our teachers used this as punishment frequently. We didn’t like, but it was better than the paddle. \*\* That bothers me for a couple of reasons…but it’s beside the point. The taping in this story was not a punishment. The kids were playing. Nobody was humiliated, nobody was harmed in any way, except the teacher. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/28 "2003-02-25T00:35:41Z")
I just think the teacher should have used better judgment. At first I thought-oh my god, how bad. But then, after awhile, I did see the stupidity of it. If, not, at least, for all the waste. ---
**Author:** ![Tinkertoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f19dbf/32.png) [@Tinkertoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tinkertoy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/29 "2003-02-25T00:38:29Z")
I said that wrong. I was just trying to point out that our teacher did it as punishment and neither our parents nor the police considered it abuse. So how can using as a game be abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/30 "2003-02-25T00:47:38Z")
"Today’s lesson, students, is why thinking is bad and deferring to the “Proper Authorities” is _always_ right. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/31 "2003-02-25T00:51:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\*I just think the teacher should have used better judgment. \*\* Well…yes and maybe (IMO). In hindsight, sure. She should have known better. It’s too easy to be misinterpreted. But at the time? I don’t know. Would _I_ have thought “Oh, better not do that, people might think I’m abusing the kids.”? Maybe, maybe not. Her only real crime was being insufficiently paranoid and hypersensitive to possible criticism. Which is definitely a liability in a teacher these days, but I think that’s kind of a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/32 "2003-02-25T01:07:06Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Ferrous \* > \*\* She should have known better. It’s too easy to be misinterpreted._\* Our actions should be judged not on right or wrong but also how it _could be_ interpreted? ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/33 "2003-02-25T01:15:45Z")
I know reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, **AcidKid** , but if you go back and reread my earlier posts in this thread, you may notice that I already said she didn’t do anything wrong. So should she alter her behavior because someone _could_ think she had done something wrong? In a climate where any faint suggestion of child abuse is taken very, very seriously? Only if she wants to keep her job. But you know, completely disregarding how others might perceive your actions is always a viable option. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/34 "2003-02-25T01:24:02Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Guinastasia_ > If, not, at least, for all the waste. Yes, God knows we can’t afford to be throwing away our precious masking tape reserves on such frivolous activities. 😉 Since no one’s been able to explain why I should be horrified, mildly alarmed, or even vaguely interested in the actions of this substitute teacher, I’m going to go ahead and consider the administration of this school o be nothing more than a bunch of braying jackasses. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/35 "2003-02-25T01:34:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, for the love of pete. > > What a bunch of delicate flowers our society is becoming. A-fucking-men. Personally I think the parents that called the police should be taken out back and beaten up for good measure. Then at least they’d know the difference between an imagined battery and a real one. I wonder how many lawyers will get involved with this. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/36 "2003-02-25T01:47:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferrous \* > \*\*But at the time? I don’t know. Would _I_ have thought “Oh, better not do that, people might think I’m abusing the kids.”? Maybe, maybe not. > \*\* I don’t sub for elementary schools, but if it were me, I would have thought “Oh gee, I’m losing control of the class. Time to crack down.” I don’t care where the original idea to tape their mouths came from, the sub should have said “NO” and left it at that. Just no. She certainly should have been reprimanded for losing control of the kids like that, but the firing was a bit harsh. But then again, elementary-age children are delicate rods of glass to whom nothing bad must happen or else it will ruin their self-esteem/psychological development/insert child development fad of the week here. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/37 "2003-02-25T03:27:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ferrous \* > **… go back and reread my earlier posts in this thread, you may notice that I already said she didn’t do anything wrong.** > [@](#): > > **She shouldn’t have done it, because it could so easily be misinterpreted** She shouldn’t of done it because she didn’t do anything wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/38 "2003-02-25T03:50:54Z")
Wow, you really are pretty dense. Let me try it one more time: She shouldn’t have\* done it, not because it was a bad thing, but because it’s the sort of thing that overprotective parents and lawsuit-wary school officials might not take well. It’s not a good thing that people react that way, but it’s a fact of modern life, and a teacher should have been aware of that. I don’t agree with the administration reacting the way they did, but I’m not terribly surprised either. Some people are stupid. Some people freak out at any suggestion of harm to their precious offspring. Like it or not, that’s how it is. Are we clear now? I can try to type it again with smaller words, if you like… [sub]\*That’s “shouldn’t HAVE done it”. Not “shouldn’t of”.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/39 "2003-02-25T03:56:25Z")
I think that **SpazCat** nailed it. You generally don’t want to start letting the kids doing things like taping their mouths shut, if only because-let’s face it, second graders don’t need a lot of things to get out of hand. Now, if she did this as a PUNISHMENT, then I would think she’s an ass. ---
**Author:** ![croaker67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@croaker67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/croaker67)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007/40 "2003-02-25T04:06:21Z")
Hmmm… Children should be seen and not heard. What a fabulous idea. Any chance on someone putting a patent on this idea??? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sub-tapes-2nd-graders-mouths-shut/157007.md?page=3)