# Subliminable II **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2000, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619 "2000-09-26T16:35:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2000, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/61 "2000-09-28T22:12:10Z")
P.S.: I’m a McCain-iac, by the way, not a bushbaby. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2000, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/62 "2000-09-28T22:23:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > \*\*. . . this entire topic is one small step from a troll. \*\* One small _circular_ step; I thought we’d covered this? ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2000, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/63 "2000-09-28T22:35:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Funny. I could have swore what I said was, whether a presidential candidate is highly eloquent and in the top one-tenth of a percent in intelligence isn’t nearly as important as whether he’s honest and has principles upon which he stands. So how do you equate this with his view that capital punishment is carried out in the state of Texas is fair? How do you cut Medicares growth from 18 to 12 percent _ **without** _ cutting Medicare? Say there are no hungry children is Texas? Say he’s for inclusion, and appoint a bigot to run the CJS? (in case you unfamiliar the guy in question, has admitted to calling blacks porch monkeys and whatnot) 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/64 "2000-09-29T03:16:17Z")
Okay, let’s analyze events: OP says “Bush is stupid because he said X, which everyone knows isn’t true! Hahahaha, look at me, I’m making fun of Bush!” OP gets a response to the effect “But X _is_ true. Bush was correct.” OP stares blankly for a few seconds, then comes back with: “You’re all Bushbabies, you can’t defend him, Bushbabies Bushbabies all!” Man, do I ever love GD. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/65 "2000-09-29T14:02:36Z")
We did cover it, lissener. But, you seemed apologetic at that point. From there you gone back to your original intent. You are merely trying to rile any Bush supporters who happen to wander through here. In the process, though, you’ve riled Bush supporters and many others. I’m now going call this topic an outright troll. If this were my forum, I’d lock the thread since there really is no debate and neither do you have any intention of fabricating one from this wreckage. See ya 'round the big top. In fact, if you wanna post Bush bashing topics, why don’t you head on over the message boards at [http://www.newsmax.com](http://www.newsmax.com) The ranting from both the right and left over there seem more your speed, chum. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/66 "2000-09-29T14:28:42Z")
**stuffinb** : > [@](#): > > How do you cut Medicares growth from 18 to 12 percent without cutting Medicare? Algebra 101, fer cryin’ out loud. If the current Medicare funding level is $X, and next year’s funding will be $X+.12X, has Medicare been cut or has it been increased? Man, I hope your wife balances your checkbook. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/67 "2000-09-29T14:37:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UncleBeer \* > **If this were my forum, I’d lock the thread** {shaking head} Ah, but the Godless Socialists **DavidB** and **Gaudere** are master and mistress of this forum. They’d rather hand out free abortions, re-read Marcuse, or squeeze the organic melons at the local food co-op than take the time to close a Bush-bashing thread. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/68 "2000-09-29T14:41:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > \*\ ***stuffinb** : > > > [@](#): > > > > How do you cut Medicares growth from 18 to 12 percent without cutting Medicare? > > Algebra 101, fer cryin’ out loud. If the current Medicare funding level is $X, and next year’s funding will be > $X+.12X, has Medicare been cut or has it been increased? > > Man, I hope your wife balances your checkbook. > \*\* No need to be insulting, but face the facts. The .12X increase comes from one of two sources: 1. New people entering the rolls 2. Increasing Cost Since republicans are free marketers, they won’t be asking the companies to cut there cost. So they can do only one of two things. a. they can reduce benefits (that’s a cut, in case that’s not obvious) b. they can reduce the rolls (again that’s a cut) Duh! ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/69 "2000-09-29T14:54:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stuffinb \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by pldennison \* > > \*\ ***stuffinb** : > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > How do you cut Medicares growth from 18 to 12 percent without cutting Medicare? > > > > Algebra 101, fer cryin’ out loud. If the current Medicare funding level is $X, and next year’s funding will be > > $X+.12X, has Medicare been cut or has it been increased? > > > > Man, I hope your wife balances your checkbook. > > \*\* > > No need to be insulting, but face the facts. The .12X increase comes from one of two sources: > > 1. New people entering the rolls > > 2. Increasing Cost > > Since republicans are free marketers, they won’t be asking the companies to cut there cost. So they can do only one of two things. > > a. they can reduce benefits (that’s a cut, in case that’s not obvious) > > b. they can reduce the rolls (again that’s a cut) > > Duh! \*\* Well, gee, then using your logic, keeping Medicare growth at 18 percent would have been an even **bigger** cut–6 percent bigger, huh? They’d have to cut even deeper into the benefits or rolls to cover that extra 6 percent!! So why even bother to ask the question? Looks like Bush would be doing everyone a favor, reducing that size of those funding cuts from 118% to 112%!!! An increase from 100% to 112% is apparently a cut on Planet Gore. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/70 "2000-09-29T15:19:41Z")
**pldennison** Have you even looked at Bush’s medicare proposal? Please tell me how he plans to increase medicare thusly and **still** reduce cost. From the Bush/Cheney [site](http://www.georgewbush.com/issues.asp?FormMode=FullText&ID=22) > [@](#): > > Medicare’s current guarantee of access to seniors must be preserved. Everyone who qualifies for Medicare must continue to automatically receive benefits. _Hmm no reduction there._ > [@](#): > > Every Medicare recipient must have a choice of health plans, including the option of purchasing a plan that covers prescription drugs. _Hmm, sounds like their shifting cost back to the individual._ > [@](#): > > All Medicare recipients should be given the opportunity to choose a comprehensive health plan that best reflects their health care needs,\*\*\* including a plan that provides coverage of outpatient prescription drugs.\*\*\* > [@](#): > > Medicare must cover expenses for low-income seniors. To keep our commitment to low income seniors,\*\*\* a reformed Medicare program must cover the entire cost of a health plan, including prescription drug expenses.\*\*\* - Wait isn’t this just the opposite of what was said previously. hmmm…\* > [@](#): > > Reform must provide streamlined access to the latest medical technologies.\*\*\* The government must reform its methods for approving new technology and devices to give seniors access to state-of-the-art treatment. * * * _Emphasis mine_ These are all increases in converage. Yet he going to _ **reduce cost** _ Hmmm… Now either a) he’s lying just like Gore or b) he’s stupid, or c)thinks we are. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/71 "2000-09-29T15:35:02Z")
Got it wrong, spoofe: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE Bo Diddly \* > \*\*Okay, let’s analyze events: > > OP says “Bush is stupid because he said X, which everyone knows isn’t true! Hahahaha, look at me, I’m making fun of Bush!” > > OP gets a response to the effect “But X _is_ true. Bush was correct.” > > OP stares blankly . . . \*\* Um, no, OP rolls his eyes and deals rather effectively with the singularly lame attempt to cover Dubya’s flapping ass, saying first, “I was so sure that someone would trot this out that I almost included a preemptive defense of it in my OP. But then I decided that in so assuming I was being too hard on the SDMB community; no one here would be that shamelessly lame, I thought.” And then, when the lameness would not die, “This is _so funny_. The bushbabies are saying that Dubya was very subtly distinguishing foreign oil that comes across the Great Water from foreign oil that travels by Iron Horse. What’s next, it was his accent?” :rubs hands briskly: job well done: And besides, I also said (exactly which three posts _did_ you read in this thread, spoofe?) that I don’t think that Dubya is stupid because he says X; I said he said X because he’s stupid. Sheesh. I should just say everything twice and get it over with. I should just say everything twice and get it over with. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/72 "2000-09-29T16:30:51Z")
**lissener** , this is very entertaining, but I hope SDMB isn’t your only outlet for this sort of thing. Since you’re encouraging people to read the thread, let’s read the “shamelessly lame” reply to your OP. Calling me a “bushbaby” is pretty reactionary, but in the context of one of your posts, I’ll let that go. I am unsure how my “picking a nit” with your joyous OP and _labeling it as such_ before I go on to lambaste Bush and Gore qualifies as a “singularly lame attempt to cover Dubya’s flapping ass”. I note that you didn’t deal with anything else in that post, and that makes me wonder if you read past my “singularly lame” nitpick before dragging your trambling, sweaty hands back to the keyboard to spew more bile. I just thought you should know that at the very least, you’ve done some good because I’m laughing my nonpartisan ass off over here. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/73 "2000-09-29T21:21:32Z")
Jesus, **lissener** , stay off our side, would you? There’s plenty of viable nits to pick with either candidate. You’ve made a couple valid points, totally overshadowed by your remarkable impression of a never ending troll. Coming from a Democrat and reluctant Gore suppporter, **stop helping.** ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/74 "2000-09-29T21:25:32Z")
Sorry, J; I wasn’t “helping,” I was just having some fun at Bush’s expense. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/75 "2000-09-29T21:42:50Z")
Yeah, well, you didn’t do it very well. Look, this was going to be a big Pit-worthy rant, but…it’s not worth it. UncleBeer already did it better, and I just wanted you to understand that it’s not because of his political views, it’s because his nonpartisan intellect is being offended. So is mine, as much as my flaming liberalism wants to support you. So I’ll just reiterate: You’re doing more harm than good. Please, salvage your dignity. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/76 "2000-09-29T22:08:48Z")
Look, it’s obvious that I shouldn’t have opened this thread in GD. The only reason I did was because I thought it would have been, I don’t know, impractical to have added it to the end of the existing “Subliminable” thread, which had wound down. But I should have either done that, as it was obviously not worthy of its own GD thread, or opened it in MPSIMS. Just stringing it on to the end of a dwindling thread or opening it in MPSIMS would not have saddled me with the obligation of maintaining a supportable Debate; opening it here does of course carry such an obligation. I apologize for not giving it this much thought in the first place; it was meant as nothing more than a toss off. Gaudere, David B, would one of you please move this to MPSIMS? Thanks. I now return you to your regularly scheduled debates. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/77 "2000-09-29T22:14:29Z")
JSexton, the vehemence of your reaction kind of stuns me. This is _so/_ not that important. I didn’t open this thread to gain Gore recruits, which seems to the goal you’re saying I’ve failed at so miserably. Making fun of the Back Street Boys doesn’t make me an N’Sync fan, so I’m not sure I get where you’re coming from. Please feel free to start a thread in support of Gore, but this was not the thread you thought it was. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/78 "2000-09-29T22:15:35Z")
JSexton, the vehemence of your reaction kind of stuns me. This is _so_ not that important. I didn’t open this thread to gain Gore recruits, which seems to the goal you’re saying I’ve failed at so miserably. Making fun of the Back Street Boys doesn’t make me an N’Sync fan, so I’m not sure I get where you’re coming from. Please feel free to start a thread in support of Gore, but this was not the thread you thought it was. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/79 "2000-09-29T22:19:28Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think that Dubya is stupid because he says X; I said he said X because he’s stupid. But the quote you gave in the OP was not, as you believed, inaccurate. If you want to convey the message “Stupid Bush, he said _this_…” I would suggest you find something to mock him with that would, in fact, support that. In addition, I would suggest you drop your overuse of the term “Bushbaby”, as it hardly gives you any credibility. > [@](#): > > Sorry, J; I wasn’t “helping,” I was just having some fun at Bush’s expense. Then why the hell is this in GD?!? I second Unclebeer’s statement… this entire thread is one big trolling tactic. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2000, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619/80 "2000-09-29T22:35:30Z")
Thank you all for reminding me of the truth of the old cliche that you just shouldn’t talk about politics or religion. Whenever I talk about U.S. politics, I almost always end up being so disgusted by the whole thing that I become dismissive and sarcastic and just generally sophomoric about it, while everyone else just gets more and more serious and defensive and just _emotional_. This makes for some unpleasant situations, like the thread stretching out above. People who disagree with you just spit and sputter and are really not interested in hearing another perspective (not this thread offered one; just generalizing), and people who agree with you (well, with me anyway) are appalled that I’m not as spiritually committed to the cause as they are. I’ve had my days of committed political activism, and even now I get pretty involved with some gay issues, but the presidential campaign is such a monumental exercise in disconnect and emptiness and television and spin and _just utter bullshit_ that my reaction to it can only be a kind of amused resignation and disgust. I’m thinking of forming a new party: the Apathy party. Every election, it becomes harder and harder to remember why I’m voting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminable-ii/34619.md?page=5)