# Subliminal skull in advertisements -- why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345 "2003-06-12T15:21:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/21 "2003-06-12T21:17:25Z")
Back in the 70’s, there was a weird kind of counter-culture that you don’t see any more (it would be something like if the modern goths were all of a sudden the “in” crowd). Skulls and black lights and black cats and all sorts of weird stuff was “cool” so I would think that a skull in an ad would say to someone that this product was anti-establishment and cool and dangerous and woohoo! Compare it to the popular imagery at the time, music like “black magic woman” and groups like black sabbath singing about black masses, and led zeppelin with their voodoo imagery on albums, etc. I used to have a glow in the dark skull on my shelf in the 70’s. I picked it up at a shop selling magic books and props. We did subliminal messages in school too. We found a naked woman hidden in a wine glass, which we all thought was pretty interesting. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/22 "2003-06-12T21:25:11Z")
In my freshman year in college, 1982-3, Edge (IIRC) shaving gel had a full page ad in some magazines with a guy using it. I think the shaving cream on his face sort of flowed into waves and clouds and a beach scene. Anyway, there were definitely many seductively placed female forms in the waves and clouds and shaving cream. A few months later, the same ads were being used, but _without_ the added female forms. Some of them may have been vaguely there, but might just have been clouds or whatever. Wish I’d saved the ads. ---
**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/23 "2003-06-12T22:28:12Z")
The explanation I have heard for why skulls and similar images would be embedded in advertising images is the same rationale for using sexual ones: that they evoke a strong emotional reaction, and thereby draw the viewer’s attention on a “subconscious” level. The conscious mind supposedly interprets this as interest in the product. My own guess is the same as several of the previous poster’s; that Brian Wilson Key is the sort of person who sees dirty pictures every time he looks at clouds, but that some advetisers may have actually toyed with the technique after Key publicized, possibly on the theory that everyone else was doing it. I do remember that either Time or Newsweek ran a cover picture of Billy Carter posing with a can of Billy Beer on its cover in the mid-70s. Key was on the best-seller list at the time, and a friend of mine who took his claims seriously claimed to find the word “sex” printed on Carter’s face is several places. Sure enough, though I was highly skeptical of Key already, it looked like he was right. It is striking that no one ever comes forward to say that they used to airbrush nude women onto ice cubes in liquor ads. My favorite claim by Key–which I cited in an earlier thread on this subject–is the one that Rembrandt painted the word “sex” onto the background of his classic painting Syndics of the Cloth Guild. Try as I may, I can’t see any hint of even one letter of the word in the picture before he drew it in. Nor did he explain why Rembrandt would have used English; the Dutch word for “sex” is considerably longer, and in no way similar. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/24 "2003-06-13T00:03:33Z")
> [@](#): > > My own guess is the same as several of the previous poster’s . . . that some advetisers may have actually toyed with the technique after Key publicized, possibly on the theory that everyone else was doing it. Since subliminal ads have been illegal for decades, I don’t know why this would be the case. Cecil admits in his columns on this topic that you can’t rule out the occasional prankster at an art agency (as opposed to the actual advertiser), but let’s look at this practically: you’re ad person for some company. If you’ve any brains, you know that subliminal advertising is 1) totally useless, and 2) illegal. Why risk getting into trouble for something that doesn’t work? ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/25 "2003-06-13T00:09:40Z")
“I met a subliminal man today…but, only for an instant” Steven Wright ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/26 "2003-06-13T00:28:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > **Since subliminal ads have been illegal for decades…** Hmmm… I don’t think that’s right. What’s the point of outlawing something that is proven to have no effect? ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/27 "2003-06-13T01:06:39Z")
becouse people think it does have an effect. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/28 "2003-06-13T02:50:40Z")
Well, there is [this](http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/news/aa091400b.htm) from an article about the “RATS” ad: > [@](#): > > The FCC issued its only regulation on subliminal advertising on Jan. 29, 1974. The entire regulation states: > > “Subliminal Programming. The FCC sometimes receives complaints regarding the alleged use of subliminal techniques in radio and television programming. Subliminal programming is designed to be perceived on a subconscious level only. The Commission has held that the use of subliminal perception is inconsistent with the obligations of a licensee and contrary to the public interest because, whether effective or not, such broadcasts are intended to be deceptive.” (39 Federal Register 3714, January 29, 1974) (Note: The Federal Register prior to 1995 is not available online.) > > Under this regulation, FCC-licensed TV and radio stations are banned from knowingly broadcasting programming containing subliminal messages of any nature. While broadcasters are not expected to screen ads or programs for subliminal messages, they are expected to stop airing them as soon as they become aware of their existence. > > The FCC issued its regulation in response to a 1974 TV toy commercial found to repeatedly flash the phrase “Get It” on the screen during the ad. ---
**Author:** ![something\_clever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3bc359/32.png) [@something\_clever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/something_clever)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/29 "2003-06-13T02:53:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bnorton \* > **I actually did a report on the whole subliminal thing back in college around 1974. The book that started the whole thing was [Subliminal Seduction by Wilson Bryan Key](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0138590907/csicop/103-1406138-8639853). I read the book and was left with the impression that Key was seriously schizophrenic finding images where none existed.** A BEAUTIFUL MIND see that movie? sounds familiar… 😉 however in that case it was related to national security instead of selling pepsi, but still… ---
**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/30 "2003-06-15T22:36:14Z")
There is more than one type of “subliminal” advertising. Not all of it is unlawful. Since the 1950s it has been illegal in the United States to make television commercials in which images are “flashed” on screen so rapidly that the conscious mind is not likely to perceive them. It was in 1973, I believe, that the promoters of a children’s game called “Husker Du?” ran afoul of this ban by flashing “get it” on screen several times during a commercial. The technique is also illegal when used as James Vicary claimed to, by flashing an image on the screen while a movie is being screened in a theater. There is, however, no universal ban on using subliminal images on film or video. Examples of movies with such images include Psycho, The Exorcist and JFK. In some prints of the film Psycho, during the long, slow close-up on Anthony Perkins towards the close of the movie, the image of a withered corpse shown earlier in the film is briefly superimposed on his face. (I could be more specific about what is shown and what it symbolizes, but there is always the outside chance that there is someone out there who still does not know about the “surprise” ending of the movie.) In The Exorcist there are at least three shots of a demonic-looking face which last about two frames each. It is arguable to what degree these are truly subliminal. Some people are said to be wholly unable to remember having seen them. I recall seeing two of them clearly when I first saw the movie. They appear during Fr. Karras’ nightmare, and later, during the exorcism as Karras looks at Regan tied down in bed. When the movie was rereleased a couple of years ago I saw it again, and was surprised to see a third shot. It comes relatively early in the film, when Regan is being examined in a hospital. In JFK there is a shot lasting exactly one frame. During a scene at a party at the home of Ferry (Joe Pesci) a shot of a dangling skeleton is jammed between two longer shots. So far as I know, there is no similar restriction on subliminal advertising in print media, where the technologies used are far different, and a ban would be far harder to frame or enforce. One difficulty is that it is hard to define just what counts as submliminal in a still image; there are all sorts of innuendoes, double entendres, and symbolic references in the print media which would be hard to ban without severely restricting free speech. ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/31 "2003-06-16T06:12:23Z")
…or you could start a boy band… perhaps name it the party posse… and have a song featuring the lyrics “Evan Eht Nioj…”… oh wait… it’s been done. It’s been rumored (and proven…) that Missy Elliot puts her thang down, flips it and reverses it backwards too. However, none of this has to do with advertising, I guess… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/32 "2003-06-16T06:25:21Z")
> [@](#): > > In some prints of the film Psycho, during the long, slow close-up on Anthony Perkins towards the close of the movie, the image of a withered corpse shown earlier in the film is briefly superimposed on his face. Close. It’s actually a skull, and it’s in every print I’ve seen. It’s in the last shot of him, as he smiles. It’s quite creepy. Whatever subliminal is supposed to mean, I noticed it the first time I saw it. Didn’t know exactly what it was, but I knew I saw SOMETHING white on his face. Later I read it was a skull, and other viewings confirmed this. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/33 "2003-06-16T06:36:18Z")
A skull and crossbones doesn’t deter me from anything, in fact it makes me curious about it…in other words it’s a lure. As for the subliminal-advertising advocates here, such advertising does exist. Look at the Joe Camel ads, they’re full of phallic references, gender roles, and implied acceptance. I would like to pose a theoretical question to the posters on this thread: If you notice a marketing tool, how can it be subliminal? Isn’t the definition of subliminal " Below the threshold of conscious perception."? Seems to me that it’s a catch-22, if you can identify it, it doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/34 "2003-06-16T06:40:53Z")
Right, **dnooman** , I think I mentioned that earlier. I don’t really know that there’s anything in the Joe Camel ads you won’t see if you don’t think it’s already there… ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/35 "2003-06-16T06:58:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bnorton \* > \*\*What’s the point of outlawing something that is proven to have no effect? \*\* To get the lobbyists off your back who don’t understand or believe the demonstration that it has no effect. After all, it does no harm to ban something that is useless, right? Regards, Agback ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/36 "2003-06-16T10:06:34Z")
If it’s of any help, [this](http://johnw.host.sk/articles/freemasons/subliminal_messages.htm) page has a few scans of alleged subliminal adverts, including two ice cube “skulls.” If I may be so bold, however, I might suggest that some of these images might indeed have been put in deliberately, but not because of a fiendish marketing ploy. Just imagine: You’re a graphic artist, and you’ve been assigned to touch up yet _another_ booze add or movie poster. A little boredom and a lot of creativity meet, and presto, a “subliminal image” that’s really just a professional artist’s version of entering “S-E-X” as the initials for a High Score on a Pac-Man machine at an arcade. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/37 "2003-06-16T10:13:36Z")
And, I’d just like to note, some of (well, all of) the theories on the page I just linked to seem to have been written up by a Freemason-phobic lunatic. I just didn’t want to be accused of believing or condoning them. Ranchoth (“This is not a noose, no really its not”? How the deuce is THAT supposed to influence anyone?) ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/38 "2003-06-16T13:02:00Z")
**glilly** : _Why do people who find seemingly negative images that happen to be in photographs believe they are subliminal messages?_ Because most people are naive about perceptual psychology, and don’t appreciate the power of [pareidolia](http://skepdic.com/pareidol.html). Rather than recognising it as a perceptual illusion - we’re strongly ‘wired’ to see images, particularly faces, in vague information - they see things and assume they’re intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/39 "2003-06-16T13:51:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > \*\*Close. It’s actually a skull, and it’s in every print I’ve seen. It’s in the last shot of him, as he smiles. It’s quite creepy. Whatever subliminal is supposed to mean, I noticed it the first time I saw it. Didn’t know exactly what it was, but I knew I saw SOMETHING white on his face. Later I read it was a skull, and other viewings confirmed this. \*\* I always assumed the skull was his mother’s skull (from the skeleton found in the basement), driving home the point that his mother had taken over completely. The thing I remember reading about Key that made me pretty certain he was a wacko was when he was talking about some images that were deliberately badly distorted and that you could only “consciously” see them properly using an anamorphic lens (like a funhouse mirror, I guess?). His claim was that the brain didn’t need no stinkin’ anamorphic lens, that it could figure it out itself. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345/40 "2003-06-16T16:55:16Z")
OK. I’m guilty… _I did it once_. Honest! I used to airbrush T-shirts back in my Navy days. One day onboard the U.S.S. Nimitz, our department head came up to me and asked me to airbrush a special coat-of-arms kind of emblem on the door to the department offices. I painted the door jet black and airbrushed the design on using bright yellow paint, thinned with jet fuel. I can’t remember the exact details of the artwork since it’s been over 15 years, but I know for a fact that I inserted plenty of hidden skulls and anti-Navy kind of stuff. I wish I had taken a picture. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subliminal-skull-in-advertisements-why/181345.md?page=3)