# Subtle Misogyny at SDMB **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 5, 2001, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927 "2001-12-05T00:25:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/41 "2001-12-05T05:46:35Z")
BITCH = **B** oys **I** ’ll **T** ake **C** harge **H** ere ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/42 "2001-12-05T05:52:04Z")
Quoth **'Sprix** : > [@](#): > > Agreed. \ Ya just can’t win… Errr . . . so you _have_ heard “fag” used to denigrate women? For worse or worse, Esprix, you know very well that when the word is used as an insult, it is directed exclusively toward men. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/43 "2001-12-05T06:13:28Z")
Unless you are British. In any case: > [@](#): > > ONE. One should never say ‘one’. It is a neutered pronoun that suggests that one is too proper to have a sex. > > - John Ralston Saul, \*The Doubter’s Companion ---
**Author:** ![Salix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3e96dc/32.png) [@Salix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salix)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/44 "2001-12-05T06:40:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*ONE. One should never say ‘one’. It is a neutered pronoun that suggests that one is too proper to have a sex. > > - John Ralston Saul, _The Doubter’s Companion_\*\* But the pronouns we already have – “he” and “she” – have the same problem when it comes to other factors. For example, race. When you say “he”, I know you’re probably referring to a man, but there are times when I want to know what race that man is. Is he white? Black? South American? Indonesian? With a simple pronoun like “he”, nobody knows (without actually looking/asking)! It is my opinion that “he” and “she” are colorblind pronouns that suggest that one is too proper to have a race. We need race-specific pronouns! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/45 "2001-12-05T08:20:02Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **andros** _ > > Errr . . . so you _have_ heard “fag” used to denigrate women? > > For worse or worse, Esprix, you know very well that when the word is used as an insult, it is directed exclusively toward men. What? Huh? 😕 My remark was directed towards **Kamandi** ’s, “Uh-oh,” in regard to **thegrimspectreofreddeath** ’s example of “fag” as a generic insult to men. Obviously, despite best efforts, my innate sexual orientation remains a slur to otherwise “normal” men. Hence, my “ya can’t win.” Pray, what did you think I meant? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Genseric](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Genseric](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genseric)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/46 "2001-12-05T09:53:21Z")
bitch? whore? asshole? bastard? Can’t we do better than this? I think we need to be more creative in our epithets, personally. How about **piss guzzling monkey fucker** for starters? **Purulent goat smegma wallowing weasel nut licker**? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/47 "2001-12-05T10:24:55Z")
I noticed that the latest D&D books arbitrarily pick he or she when referring to someone in an example and stick with it for the entire example. It’s perhaps the best compromise in regard to he/she matters; not exclusive to just writing he, but nothing stupid looking like s/he. As for insults… aren’t they supposed to be insulting, you know, by definition? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/48 "2001-12-05T13:49:18Z")
Not that this has anything to do with deciding whether or not to use non-gender-specific profanity, but does anybody know if there is any current Official Rule of English on whether one refers to unknown gender as male or female? When I was growing up, the rule was male, because (a) there were more men than women, and (b) men owned everything. Now that there are more women than men, the rule might have changed. FRT: “Hir” bites wild donkey nuts. Blehhh. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/49 "2001-12-05T13:50:33Z")
umm… that’d be FTR, BTW. Blehhh, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/50 "2001-12-05T13:52:52Z")
If you’re in England, then a fag becomes a cigarette. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/51 "2001-12-05T14:03:13Z")
I never realized how deep some conspiracies ran. Now I know they have even taken hold of our language. Something must be done. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/52 "2001-12-05T14:10:09Z")
From Merriam-Webster, see [for yourselves](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary) > [@](#): > > They, their, them, themselves: English lacks a common-gender third person singular pronoun that can be used to refer to indefinite pronouns (as everyone, anyone, someone). Writers and speakers have supplied this lack by using the plural pronouns \ \ \. The plural pronouns have also been put to use as pronouns of indefinite number to refer to singular nouns that stand for many persons \<'tis meet that some more audience than a mother, since nature makes them partial, should o’erhear the speech – Shakespeare\> \ \. The use of they, their, them, and themselves as pronouns of indefinite gender and indefinite number is well established in speech and writing, even in literary and formal contexts. This gives you the option of using the plural pronouns where you think they sound best, and of using the singular pronouns (as he, she, he or she, and their inflected forms) where you think they sound best Note that the usage of “they” as a gender-neutral singular pronoun has been in use since at least Shakespeare’s time. pan ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/53 "2001-12-05T14:11:58Z")
Just realised that the above is referring to unknown-number cases, such as “everyone”. But I’ve seen similar that suggest that “they” as a singular gender-neutral pronoun is acceptable in the English language. Seems reasonable to me. I use it myself. pan ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/54 "2001-12-05T14:43:48Z")
I think I may have been the 300lb straw that broke the lisseners back for this pit thread. In another thread, I referred to Salt N Pepa as loudmouth skanks. I was accused of having “other issues”. :shrug: I think they **are** loudmouth skanks. And that’s not a term I would throw around to every woman I didn’t like. Wanna see? Some women singers I don’t particulary care for (and why): Jewel? Bad poetry writing, mediocre singing, Can-opener-tooth having. Courtney Love? Skanky. Janis Joplin? Abrasive and overrated. Alanis Morrissette? Eh, A few good songs but mostly overrated. Wendy O williams? Too scary. Mariah Carey? Skanky. Ani DiFranco? Too much indie attitude that I can’t even get to her music. (I hear this may hhave changed recently but I havent bothered with her in 5 or 6 years) Tori Amos? Too many issues. See? There are lots of reasons for not liking certin female singers. If they are skanky, I’ll call them skanky. Or is that not allowed? If not, could someone forward me the latest patch to the PC Bible? Musta missed it somewhere… Now, I assume I am going to get slammed for having just a list of women I don’t like, and not including men. That’s misogyny, dont you know. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/55 "2001-12-05T14:56:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yue Han \* > \*\*[hijack] > Ah… Jet Black. Been seeing his stuff all over the place lately, let’s see: > > 1. Posts well in most/ all forums. > 2. Nice sig. > 3. Hilariously subtle quote in this thread: > > > [@](#): > > > > Gender in language? Never use it. I don’t get hysterical over that stuff. > > Best newbie ever. > [/hijack] > > –John \*\* Was wondering if I was the only one who thought so. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/56 "2001-12-05T15:24:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gomez \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Hmm genderless language. I don’t like it. Shall we just revert to newsspeak? > > Noooo, that would be DOUBLE,DOUBLE ungood! \*\* That’s Double_plus_ ungood, bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/57 "2001-12-05T15:27:05Z")
My friend Steve learned that when you’re visiting Canada one should not stnad in the middle of the largest mall in the world and say “I’m gaggin’ for a fag” unless you want a great number of people looking in your direction. The phrase has now slipped into my own vocabulary. Hell, I’m gaggin for a fag right now… where’d I put that lighter? ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/58 "2001-12-05T15:32:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > > > [@](#): > > > > Lying piece of sack of shit, slut trashcan, scummist dirtbag… **BITCH!!!** > > \*\* BRAVO! I think that’s the first Fishbone reference I’ve seen on this board. This is one of the most underrated, underappreciated bands of the last 20 years. ---
**Author:** ![Billy\_Baroo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/76d3ee/32.png) [@Billy\_Baroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy_Baroo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/59 "2001-12-05T15:40:36Z")
**Lissener,** I think it’s time to announce that you will soon be a post-op transsexual. You want to nip the problem in the bud. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927/60 "2001-12-05T16:35:30Z")
No worries, **Esprix**. **Grimmy** was only pointing out examples of insults that were directed solely at men, and I thought you had missed that. My bad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subtle-misogyny-at-sdmb/96927.md?page=4)