Otto: Most exercise tapes feature a room full of big haired, spandex-clad chicks doing hip-rolls and leg-lifts and dancy numbers. If I were a guy, I’d probably feel like a total queen working out to those.
Not that that’s a bad thing…I can just see what he’s talking about.
Mipsman: Don’t worry about the style. Worry about the instructor. Self defense comes down largely to a matter of mindset (read “Real Fighting” & “A Bouncer’s Guide” by Peyton Quinn, “Strong on Defense” by Sanford Strong). Find yourself an instructor who understands and teaches mindset by using scenario based training. Style-wise just make sure it is something you would enjoy. If you like grappling, take up grappling, if you like kicking take up Tae Kwon Do, if you like … well you get the idea. 
Best of luck.
P.s. - I will say that I was really impressed with a demonstration of Krav Maga last year. As a whole they seem like a style really devoted to good, no-nonsense self defense. Your mileage may vary.
I think he means that when he does his Taebo he does not feel as if he would appear to someone else that he was exhibiting traits that are indicative of being gay.
Now that doesn’t mean that his next door neighbor doesn’t get a woody when he watching him do the taebo. But if Frankd6 doesn’t know about his neighbor, then he still doesn’t feel gay. Of course, when I dress up in my blue dress and apron and yell “Auntie Em”, as I am wont to do, I don’t feel gay, either. But that doesn’t mean other people don’t think I’m gay.
I think.
It would be a good no-nonsense style, Glitch. It was developed by the Israeli armed forces. 
– Sylence
If a bird doesn’t sing, I’ll wait until it sings.
Billy Blanks is maybe the only famous person to ever come from my home town of Erie, PA, so goddammit stop putting him down!!!
Revtim: Gee, now that’s a convincing reason.
Gee, my opinion of Erie PA must haven’t been low enough. (insert smilie)
how did it start? well i don’t know i just feel the craving. i see the flesh and it smells fresh and it’s just there for the taking…
VvvV
That’s the one. I call it “A Bouncer’s Guide” by Peyton Quinn for short because I am lazy.
I seem to recall that Billy Blanks was a damned good kickboxer back in the 80’s. I was teaching karate back then, and his name used to come up fairly often.
I’ve got no real problem with Tae Bo. Of course it’s useless for self-defense, but so is Tai Chi and to a large extent traditional martial arts like Tae Kwon Do. So what? Getting out and doing some Tae Bo may help people get into shape, and it’s got to be better than sitting in front of the TV. And I’ve never heard it advertised as a form of self-defense.
I’m a traditionalist when it comes to the martial arts, although I can tolerate pretty much anything (other than the strutting young punks at the local ‘kickboxing academies’ that train for no other reason than to go out and push their weight around).
Before you throw stones at Billy Blanks, Glitch, I think it would do you well to remember that there are a lot of people who spend decades learning and passing on traditional styles and techniques that have been passed down from generation to generation for hundreds of years, and look down mighty hard at ‘martial artists’ who practice styles based on books about brawling in bars.
I’ve got no problem with it, but I’ve never been an exclusionary type of person.
I think the commercial is pretty funny actually. I dont know or care whether he knows any tae bo or not.
dhanson: Who says you can’t do both? I teach plenty of kata and plenty of the culture and tradition of the martial arts. However, I also teach a lot of crime survival martial arts. At least I know what I teach and don’t pretend it is something else. As Ayoob puts it in reference to purely traditionally taught martial arts as taught as self defense
If you want to teach martial arts as self improvement (discipline, self improvement, etc) … no problem. You want to teach martial arts as exercise … no problem. You want to teach martial arts as a means of preserving some traditional rituals … no problem. You want to try to convince your students that you have taught them crime survival … big problem. You want to convince your students that they are warriors ™ and possess the Hammer of Thor even though they don’t train like the warriors of old … big problem. So, tell me dhanson, did you try to sell your students that they were self defense experts? Did you send them out into the streets mentally unprepared for what awaited them? Do you make it clear to them that what they were NOT learning was self defense? Did you make sure to break the illusions they no doubt picked up from movie and television that what you were teaching them wasn’t self defense at all? If they were injured do you feel a little twinge of responsibility for cramming a load of bullshit down their throats?
I don’t teach people how to fight in bars (Peyton Quinn’s book “Real Fighting” is much more related to what I teach that “A Bouncer’s Guide”, the main concept I like in “A Bouncer’s Guide” is environmental awareness). The traditional approach is easily modified to teach crime survival, but most instructors lack either the skills and knowledge, or lack the balls to make their course hardcore enough to give their students what they need.
As Ayoob puts it:
You think he is just talking about black belt factories … ha, read on!
You think that is how the ever revered “ancient masters” trained? Huh? You think they spent all their time doing light contact sparring (and you are lucky if you get that in a school these days)? Yet year after year the bulk of instructors have the gall to tell their students they are warriors. That they are prepared to defend themselves.
Fact … the martial arts as commonly taught doesn’t teach in a manner remotely conditioned for teaching self defense. Most students are willing to accept putting in the BLOOD, SWEAT and PAIN required to get it. There is nothing wrong with this. As many people say “I don’t want to be all beaten up. I have to go to work tomorrow.” No problem. My plea to the martial arts community is stop selling the bullshit as self defense. Stop filling people with false confidence and getting them killed on the street.
OSU!
[quote]
Another a couple of other minor points:
Have you actually read “A Bouncer’s Guide”, I assume not, because if you had you wouldn’t have posted something as stupid as your previous post.
Secondly, so are we to judge a book by its title now? One of the most commonly preached books for martial artists to read is “The Art of War”… ever told a student to read it dhanson? Would you assume that a teacher who had wanted their students to go start and fight wars? Good grief.
Glitch, I wasn’t criticizing your style. I have read Ayoob, but have not read ‘A Bouncer’s Guide’. I repeat: I had nothing at all to say about the merits of your style. Hell, I don’t even know what it is.
When I taught Karate, I emphasized the virtues of discipline, confidence, and respect for others. My style of Karate is Okinawan Goju-Ryu, which derives from a fairly laid-back (for Japanese) island culture. Tolerance for other viewpoints is important. And even though Goju-Ryu is a pretty decent traditional martial art from a street-defense standpoint (a lot of in-close moves and grappling techniques, no flashy spinning back kicks and all that stuff), we looked mighty hard at any students who got into confrontations. And I was always a realist when it came to the limitations of traditional martial arts in modern street-fighting situations. I was actually glad to see the Ultimate Fighting Championships come along, because it was a wake-up call for a lot of karate students who thought they were walking killing machines because they could do a few Kata and tag an opponent in a sparring match.
Anyway, my point was that your heavy criticism of Tae Bo is not much different than the rage of traditionalists who attack ‘modern defense’ martial arts. Bruce Lee came under tremendous fire for departing from tradition.
To me, people who get enraged over other styles are not displaying the proper attitude. As you gain in martial arts stature and personal prowess, you should become more and more tolerant, not less.
Now, if he is actually harming people, then things change and I’ll line up beside you in condemning him. But I think that from other than a financial standpoint his Tae Bo does more good than harm. As I said, I’ve NEVER heard it called a self-defense. It’s always promoted as a unique new form of exercise. He may mention that it will help you from a self-defense standpoint, and that’s probably true. Just being more fit will help, and learning to punch and kick will help a bit too. Just not as much as other martials arts would (maybe not even by an order of magnitude.) I personally wish that the people who expended the effort on it would expend the same effort in the more traditional martial arts where they could expand their minds while improving their bodies, but that’s just a personal opinion. I suspect that your annoyance with him comes from a similar feeling - traditional karate schools and ‘real’ defense schools have always struggled to keep the doors open and keep students, then Blanks comes along with a snappy production and some celeb endorsements and attracts millions of people who wouldn’t give two cents to the arts you and I love and support.
I looked up Blanks’ martial arts resume, and it’s pretty impressive. 7th degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do, captain of the first U.S. Olympic Karate Team (event cancelled due to the 1980 U.S. boycott), 7 times world amateur Karate champion. He was elected to the Karate hall of fame in 1982, long before this Tae Bo stuff came along. Cut him some slack.
Although martial arts have good benefit and affords improvement in dexterity, movement,and strength, the thought that martial arts can help you in self defense and attack is complete bullshit!!
I don’t care if it’s karate, billy blanks moves or bobo tray at the chinese shop, it’s ridiculous if people think it’s of use.
The only true exception to this are the martial arts that deal specifically with continued contact such as judo.
I
Well, you’re completely wrong about that.
ANY martial art will help you defend yourself to some degree, for the following reasons:
A somewhat funny example: When I went back to university in 1985 (after training 30 hours a week in the martial arts for a few years before that), I was sitting in a lounge reading a novel when a girl decided to play a joke and grab my book. So I’m sitting there reading, and this hand comes out of nowhere towards my face. My instinctive reaction was to grab her hand, twist her arm around in a joint lock, and pin her to the floor. The room went silent, and I was mortified for what had happened. She wasn’t injured, but I spent the next hour apologizing, and we wound up dating for a while.
The question is not whether martial arts will help you defend yourself, but how MUCH they will help you. I’ve said a million times that a black belt in a traditional martial art (Judo, Karate, Tae Kwon Do) is still no match for a very good, mean streetfighter. Unless the karate practitioner ALSO happens to be a skilled, mean streetfighter. Then the Karate will add to his skill set. But all things being equal, who wins on the street is mostly about attitude, viciousness, size, and surprise. Try using your fancy spinning back kicks when you are charged by a 250 lb maniac with spittle flying and perhaps a beer bottle coming at your head. And even if you land your kick, you aren’t going to drop someone cold with it unless you are very, very lucky. In which case you’ll have a 250lb screaming maniac pummeling you and biting your nose. If you’re not the mean type, chances are you’ll just turn into a blubbering idiot at this point.
The ultimate fighting championships favor guys who use lots of grappling techniques, but on the street you’d be wise not to try that unless you’re positive that the guy’s buddies aren’t around, or else once your arms are tied up in applying a joint lock you’re going to start taking some boots to the head.
Bottom line: You shouldn’t be involved in brawls with streetfighters ANYWAY. Use your superior judgement to stay out of situations that require the use of your superior skills. If you DO get into a self-defense situation, it’ll more likely be against a mugger, or an enraged driver, or perhaps a drunk somewhere. In which case, good martial arts training will let you handle the person.
Amen.
My personal experience:
I fought very often before I started training in the martial arts. I was moderately successful at it.
I fought less often after several years of training, with a high level of success (no serious injuries to me – few unnecesary injuries to my opponents). Among other things, my training allowed me to control many potential conrontations before they degraded into violence. Of course, growing up a little bit also helped – I rarely find myslef in the type of confrontations that were common when I was the young, dumb and full of cum.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
how did it start? well i don’t know i just feel the craving. i see the flesh and it smells fresh and it’s just there for the taking…
VvvV
No, I have never worked as a bouncer. In fact, I don’t drink so I have never been into a bar, except one time to get a friend of mine and bring him home.
I have had three encounters with what would be considered in the “big leagues” (i.e. true violent crime/criminals). I don’t count schoolyard bullies, etc as real fights, because typically they don’t want to fight anymore than you do (that itself is a complicated subject i.e. what is a “real” fight?, and it is that question which leads to a lot of confusion and myths for martial arts and people in general). Although these days schoolyard bullies are increasingly violent criminals so maybe kids these days could count those as “big league” encounters.