# Subway scrabble is a rip off **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637 "2009-05-16T13:09:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/21 "2009-05-16T22:14:21Z")
> [@mshar253](#): > > You’re both wrong; it’s, “ **P** lease **e** xcuse **m** y **d** ear **A** unt **S** ally.” Yo man, That’s the same as his PEMDAS. You needed to lay off the math and put in some more English. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/22 "2009-05-16T22:22:44Z")
My guess is that the law in some jurisdictions where Subway operates makes games of chance illegal. By introducing a skill component they avoid charges of running an illegal lottery. It may not be their fault. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/23 "2009-05-16T22:36:16Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > My guess is that the law in some jurisdictions where Subway operates makes games of chance illegal. By introducing a skill component they avoid charges of running an illegal lottery. It may not be their fault. If that is the case, the skill question should be 1 + 1 = ? That’s the sort of thing that usually satisfies the skill requirements. That’s how some bowling leagues got away with their 50/50 raffles every week. You had to roll the ball down the lane. You didn’t have to make a strike or even knock over any pins, you just had to have the skill to roll the ball down the lane. (Some leagues required a strike or gave away a dollar per pin for anything short of a strike which made for higher pots in the following weeks, but that doesn’t apply here.) ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/24 "2009-05-16T23:10:15Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > But they’d rather see me complain on a public message board instead of to them. Why don’t you just call Subway corporate? Or email the president of Subway? The rant was borderline over-the-top for such small stakes, but you’re rapidly crossing the line to full-on overreaction. Plus you failed at basic math, so there’s that. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/25 "2009-05-16T23:15:29Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > The rant was borderline over-the-top for such small stakes, but you’re rapidly crossing the line to full-on overreaction. It’s the Pit - he didn’t overreact _enough_. Where’s the threat to skullfuck Jared, already? Pffft… quitter. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/26 "2009-05-16T23:27:17Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > PEMDAS, Eh? I guess it could work that way. But if you tell me that you use “soda” instead of “pop” ( :dubious: ) you’re friggin crazy.\* I studied grade school Math in _Eastern Canada_. Ah ha! I see the problem. You are playing Subway’s game in Canada, where certain types of games of pure chance are illegal. Mixed games of chance and skill are legal. From [here](http://www.gaminglawmasters.com/jurisdictions/canada/SkillvsChanceOct2004.htm): “By adding an element of skill to a game, a contest will be protected from scrutiny under these provisions.[4] Therefore, games that would otherwise constitute games of pure chance are usually transformed into games of mixed skill and chance by requiring winners to answer a “skill-testing question” before claiming prizes.” Vlad/Igor ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/27 "2009-05-16T23:32:45Z")
> [@Vlad\_Igor](#): > > Ah ha! I see the problem. You are playing Subway’s game in Canada, where certain types of games of pure chance are illegal. Mixed games of chance and skill are legal. From [here](http://www.gaminglawmasters.com/jurisdictions/canada/SkillvsChanceOct2004.htm): > > “By adding an element of skill to a game, a contest will be protected from scrutiny under these provisions.[4] Therefore, games that would otherwise constitute games of pure chance are usually transformed into games of mixed skill and chance by requiring winners to answer a “skill-testing question” before claiming prizes.” > > Vlad/Igor That does not appear to apply here: > [@](#): > > Gaming cannot be said to exist where players have no risk of real loss. Notwithstanding the payment of money or its equivalent to play, if there is no risk to the player losing money or money’s worth, the element of gaming, betting or wagering is eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/28 "2009-05-17T00:17:41Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > That does not appear to apply here: True, but I’m not the lawyer telling the Canadian Subway how to run its game, either. It is, after all, just one of several available restaurants, unless the OP is living in Labrador. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/29 "2009-05-17T00:29:11Z")
No doubt. Really, though, my money is on the skill test serving to reduce the number of eligible payoffs, not for legal reasons. Bit underhanded, I agree, but hardly worth getting your undies in a wad over. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/30 "2009-05-17T00:36:32Z")
> [@Caveat\_lector\_1](#): > > Not to take away from your rightious indignation, but where are you from that you use BEDMAS? I always learned it as PEMDAS. Different ways of doing things are neat. That’s so odd. I learned it as BOMDAS when I was in secondary school, (high school for Americans I think?). Which is strange for two reasons - first, we had of instead of exponent, and second, we have multiplication before division. Was I always taught wrong?? Or does Europe just have different rules even for maths. (I’m from Ireland b.t.w.) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/31 "2009-05-17T00:45:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It’s the Pit - he didn’t overreact _enough_. Where’s the threat to skullfuck Jared, already? > > Pffft… quitter. His skull is now too narrow for the OP’s cock to fit, due to eating healthy Subway sandwiches. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/32 "2009-05-17T03:15:09Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > That’s so odd. I learned it as BOMDAS when I was in secondary school, (high school for Americans I think?). > > Which is strange for two reasons - first, we had of instead of exponent, and second, we have multiplication before division. > > Was I always taught wrong?? Or does Europe just have different rules even for maths. > > (I’m from Ireland b.t.w.) As far as I can recall it won’t make any difference if you do multiplication before or after division because you’re using the same factors either way. Eg., 4 \* 12 / 6 = 48 / 6 = **8** … or 4 \* 12 / 6 = 4 \* 2 = **8**. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/33 "2009-05-17T03:23:39Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > No doubt. Really, though, my money is on the skill test serving to reduce the number of eligible payoffs, not for legal reasons. No, the reason for the skill element in Canadian contests, such as the OP is complaining about, is for legal reasons. From the [Criminal Code of Canada](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_VII-gb:s_201//en#anchorbo-ga:l_VII-gb:s_201): > [@](#): > > 1. (1) Every one is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years who > > (a) makes, prints, advertises or publishes, or causes or procures to be made, printed, advertised or published, any proposal, scheme or plan for … **disposing of any property by … any mode of chance whatever** … Emphasis mine, and it’s pretty clear that a contest involving pure chance is illegal.\* However, a game of mixed chance and skill is perfectly fine. This would include situations like the OP’s where the buyer of a sandwich is offered a random prize ticket (chance) that, if a winner, could only be redeemed if the person passed a test of skill, such as a math question. - There are, as might be expected, exceptions to the “pure chance” provisions of s. 206 for such things as provincial lotteries, legal casinos, horse racing, and games of chance benefiting a charity, but a commercial venture’s contests (such as Subway Scrabble, McDonald’s Monopoly, and the like) wouldn’t fall under them. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/34 "2009-05-17T03:31:53Z")
I see why you’re upset, but not how you can claim to be “ripped off”. Did your game pieces that you paid for not come with, you know, _a sandwich_? Which you presumably ate instead of throwing it away and keeping the game piece? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/35 "2009-05-17T04:40:22Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I see why you’re upset, but not how you can claim to be “ripped off”. Did your game pieces that you paid for not come with, you know, _a sandwich_? Which you presumably ate instead of throwing it away and keeping the game piece? Well, presumably the game will draw in customers who see value added to their experience above and beyond the normally delicious subway experience. Otherwise, why run the promotion? So these people believe there is value added. There is not. Therefore these people are being ripped off. ---
**Author:** ![KarmaComa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e36b37/32.png) [@KarmaComa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarmaComa)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/36 "2009-05-17T11:02:41Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Maybe I did, Maybe SUBWAY decided to random reject 0.000001% of all entries to save $0.50? A stretch, I know, but why the fuck can’t I even double check the question? Why the fuck can’t it even give me the correct answer? Why the fuck am I not warned up front that I only get one shot at it? Why the fuck can’t I get a number to call someone to complain? Why the fuck couldn’t I just redeem it in the friggin store? > > There’s a lot of questions that I have about the way SUBWAY redeems prizes. And I have no doubt that Subway has already expected that I would. But they’d rather see me complain on a public message board instead of to them. Your OP made me chuckle but this has me in hysterics. Allusions to a deep conspiracy in the Subway prize racket? Damn, why don’t you just admit that you fucked up the basic math question and get on with your life? You think you deserve a gift certificate. They tested your skill; they disagree. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/37 "2009-05-17T11:29:50Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Why don’t you just call Subway corporate? Or email the president of Subway? The rant was borderline over-the-top for such small stakes, but you’re rapidly crossing the line to full-on overreaction. > > Plus you failed at basic math, so there’s that. > Just sayin’. Wha…? I oughta… **Shakes fist** ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/38 "2009-05-17T16:24:05Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > So these people believe there is value added. There is not. Therefore these people are being ripped off. Incorrect. What is being offered is a chance to win prizes. They have that. Unless you can demonstrate that Subway is acting in some manner to make winning impossible, nobody is being ripped off. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/39 "2009-05-18T08:33:01Z")
> [@really not all that bright](#): > > as far as i can recall it won’t make any difference if you do multiplication before or after division because you’re using the same factors either way. > > Eg., 4 \* 12 / 6 = 48 / 6 = **8** … Or 4 \* 12 / 6 = 4 \* 2 = **8**. Yeah, but 12 / 6 \* 4 = 2 \* 4 = 8 12 / 6 \* 4 = 12 / 24 = 0.5 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637/40 "2009-05-18T12:26:54Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Incorrect. What is being offered is a chance to win prizes. They have that. Unless you can demonstrate that Subway is acting in some manner to make winning impossible, nobody is being ripped off. We’re not in a court where what is contained deep within the fine print matters (and even then sometimes it doesn’t.) Until now I’ve never heard of a contest that requires you to answer unrelated trivia or math questions in order to claim a prize they promote as instantly winning. A reasonable person should not conclude that that could possibly even be part of the requirement to win a prize, unless it’s promoted as such. In fact, were I to “win” a prize like this only to be met with a semi-simple question in order to really win, the first thing I’d think of is “when did Subway get bought out by Internet come-on advertisements”? There’s no reason to believe you’ll win something if you click on them, so why should I believe the answer to a totally unrelated question should even matter to whether Subway will honor its instant giveaway contest? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subway-scrabble-is-a-rip-off/496637.md?page=3)