# Success rate for pro se litigants **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597 "2009-06-12T20:54:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/61 "2012-07-17T14:28:25Z")
> [@Nootkabear](#): > > James and I have spent a lot of time trying to teach pro se litigants . . . You should not. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/62 "2012-07-17T14:30:25Z")
Who the eff is James when he’s at home, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Nootkabear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Nootkabear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nootkabear)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/63 "2012-07-18T07:01:28Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > “Whooshed” is a Board term for someone who misses a joke, takes it seriously instead of realising that the other person was joking. Figuratively, from the whooshing sound as it goes over the person’s head. > > **muffin** was using sarcasm to respond to your statement that “The promise that we would all get to take our case to the highest court in the land is a fairy tale, a Grimms Fairy Tale.” **muffin** was sarcastically suggesting that since everyone else’s case got there, it must be something personal against you. It was a joke, to highlight an error in your statement. I see. I appreciate the clarification. Yes, whooshed right over my head, is correct. Touche` ---
**Author:** ![Nootkabear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Nootkabear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nootkabear)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/64 "2012-07-18T07:05:46Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > You should not. Not literally of course… But should one ask us, we try to tell them both sides, and tell them, that of course, they need an attorney, but if cannot afford one, especially versus losing their home, we have tried to let them know where they can go for information, and rules. You would rather no one tell them, and have them go in with no knowledge of the rules, etc? Many of these people in foreclosure, are in foreclosure through no fault of their own. What do you suggest? What would you do, if someone asked you? ---
**Author:** ![Nootkabear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Nootkabear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nootkabear)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/65 "2012-07-18T07:07:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who the eff is James when he’s at home, anyway? Being a female, I have a mate, his name is James. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/66 "2012-07-18T12:06:16Z")
Nootkabear, I would advise people to steer well clear of unemployed nutters who hold themselves out as self-appointed and unregulated paralegals, who claim that the legal system is corrupt, who characterize the judiciary as being black robed mafia, and who spend their time publishing libel against specific lawyers and judges. ---
**Author:** ![Nootkabear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Nootkabear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nootkabear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/67 "2012-07-19T05:24:49Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Nootkabear, I would advise people to steer well clear of unemployed nutters who hold themselves out as self-appointed and unregulated paralegals, who claim that the legal system is corrupt, who characterize the judiciary as being black robed mafia, and who spend their time publishing libel against specific lawyers and judges. That sounds like really good advice to give. I shall give that advice, that won’t land me for problems with UPL, and will send them in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![Nootkabear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Nootkabear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nootkabear)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/68 "2012-07-19T19:39:29Z")
> [@Nootkabear](#): > > That sounds like really good advice to give. I shall give that advice, that won’t land me for problems with UPL, and will send them in the right direction. Furthermore, if you have proof of what you claim, it is not libel. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/69 "2012-07-19T23:56:23Z")
> [@Nootkabear](#): > > Not literally of course… But should one ask us, we try to tell them both sides, and tell them, that of course, they need an attorney, but if cannot afford one, especially versus losing their home, we have tried to let them know where they can go for information, and rules. > > You would rather no one tell them, and have them go in with no knowledge of the rules, etc? > > Many of these people in foreclosure, are in foreclosure through no fault of their own. What do you suggest? What would you do, if someone asked you? Telling people where to go for information is a public service. Telling them “both sides” when you are not qualified to do so is a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/70 "2012-07-20T01:29:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Telling people where to go for information is a public service. Telling them “both sides” when you are not qualified to do so is a crime. Well, not a crime, but very likely the unauthorized practice of law. ---
**Author:** ![Lannon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ee59a6/32.png) [@Lannon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lannon)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/71 "2012-07-20T02:30:42Z")
I believe I’ve seen court stats on the [uscourts.gov](http://uscourts.gov) website but they only break down the numbers of litigants in different courts. Whether someone is ‘successful’ is very hard to define as others have stated. Before you think about representing yourself you should find some local attorneys to speak with. Often times you can get some good info at no cost. If you’re looking for representation, I’ve used this site to [review attorneys](http://www.litigatr.com). Pro Se is appropriate for certain things, but you should really talk to lawyer before deciding. ---
**Author:** ![Nootkabear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Nootkabear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nootkabear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/72 "2012-07-20T07:32:30Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Telling people where to go for information is a public service. Telling them “both sides” when you are not qualified to do so is a crime. I didn’t know that it is a crime to discuss what has happened to oneself in court as a pro se litigant. And screw me happy, if it is UPL! ---
**Author:** ![Nootkabear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5e925/32.png) [@Nootkabear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nootkabear)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/73 "2012-07-20T07:37:04Z")
You people here kill me. Someone asks a legitimate question, the next thing they know, they are criticized for their blogs, and everything else that someone can dig up on the internet about them. I came here, not intending to assert my views upon any of you. I never said “hey yall check out my websites or blogs”, I came here in peace, hoping to learn from you guys, and others about what is going on in the rest of the country as far as pro se litigants, foreclosures, good rulings, etc. Then, all of the sudden, yall turn on me, and for what? Because I have been a pro se litigant for many years? Or what, because I decided to become a paralegal. For your information, i do work for attorneys, so the smart ass remarks about being whatever… the implication was that I am a self appointed paralegal. You don’t know nothing about me, except what I have told you or you found posted on the web. I don’t judge any of you, and I don’t appreciate being judged by you! ---
**Author:** ![pwgray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pwgray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pwgray)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/74 "2012-08-02T22:38:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If the NBA sent its teams to play teams made up of amateurs, and the NBA teams won every single game, would you blame the referees? That is most likely the dumbest argument I have ever heard. You obviously don’t know the difference between a game of skill and learning about legal matters, there is no comparison. If you think I am so wrong, then answer this: Why would an honest judge issue a court order without giving the opposing party time to respond? Why is it that out of the 8 motions I have filed the judge has only addressed one, which he denied, and yet out of the 5 motions filed by the attorney, Joshua Hague, everyone has been granted and everyone granted Ex Parte? Answer these questions if you can!!! ---
**Author:** ![pwgray](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pwgray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pwgray)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/75 "2012-08-02T22:41:26Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Apparently they do things differently in Indiana. When I have appeared against a litigant-in-person, the Courts have fallen over themselves to assist the litigant. You must be an attorney, supporting the unlawful and unconstitutional stats quo. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/76 "2012-08-02T23:37:15Z")
> [@pwgray](#): > > That is most likely the dumbest argument I have ever heard. You obviously don’t know the difference between a game of skill and learning about legal matters, there is no comparison. > > If you think I am so wrong, then answer this: > Why would an honest judge issue a court order without giving the opposing party time to respond? Why is it that out of the 8 motions I have filed the judge has only addressed one, which he denied, and yet out of the 5 motions filed by the attorney, Joshua Hague, everyone has been granted and everyone granted Ex Parte? > Answer these questions if you can!!! I have a couple of questions for you. Have you read your state’s rules of civil procedure? Are you following them? What do you mean by ex parte? Are they granting them without a hearing, or are you not attending the hearings? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597/77 "2012-08-03T02:55:53Z")
> [@pwgray](#): > > If you think I am so wrong, then answer this: > Why would an honest judge issue a court order without giving the opposing party time to respond? Why is it that out of the 8 motions I have filed the judge has only addressed one, which he denied, and yet out of the 5 motions filed by the attorney, Joshua Hague, everyone has been granted and everyone granted Ex Parte? > Answer these questions if you can!!! I don’t think you’re “so wrong”. I simply have no evidence for your claims. If everything happens as you say it has, you are the victim of a horrible miscarriage of justice. I simply have no reason to believe that it’s true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/success-rate-for-pro-se-litigants/499597.md?page=3)