# Successful restaurant without alcohol? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 11, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561 "2007-01-11T15:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/1 "2007-01-11T15:46:49Z")
I’m not sure if this should be in GD, Cafe Society, or here, but I’m hoping y’all can help settle an argument for me. I have a friend of mine who is a fellow food-lover and who is also a Muslim. We got into a discussion the other day about whether or not it was possible to run a successful retaurant without alcohol. While he would love to try it, I maintained that most of the money a restaurant makes is from the booze, not the food, so unless he was willing to settle for a cafe or a sandwhich shop, he was out of luck. I pointed out that at the real top of the culinary ladder, diners might pay about $50 to $60 dollars a head for a great meal, but would be more than happy to pay nearly double that for a few bottles of excellent wine to accompany it. \*Ergo \* - no booze, no business. He, however, maintained that there must be some health-food restaurants out there that are doing all right without selling alcohol. What say you? Is this feasible? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/2 "2007-01-11T15:49:38Z")
It’s certainly feasible. There are a couple of Mexican restaurants we go to that don’t even serve beer, much less fine wines. They’ve been in business for years. Booze will definitely help the bottom line, but it is by no means essential. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/3 "2007-01-11T15:51:50Z")
How do they survive then? Surely they can’t make enough from the food alone? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/4 "2007-01-11T15:57:04Z")
A friend of my dad’s opened a BBQ restaurant in the 60s. It’s still in business, packed daily, and doesn’t sell booze. So it’s what I’d call successful, but maybe not the “fine dining” establishment that I think you have in mind. In fact, due to archaic liquor laws, no restaurant in town sells anything more than beer. Even bars here can’t sell mixed drinks (you bring your own booze and they’ll sell you the non-alcoholic components to make a drink). Yet there are both bars and restaurants that have been in business for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/5 "2007-01-11T15:57:57Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] How do they survive then? Surely they can’t make enough from the food alone? [/QUOTE] Rice and beans don’t eat into the overhead very much. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/6 "2007-01-11T15:58:03Z")
Pennsylvania has very strict liquor laws, and it’s hard for a new restaurant to get a liquor license, so there are many successful restaurants that don’t sell booze. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/7 "2007-01-11T15:58:37Z")
It’s certainly possible. In Salt Lake City it’s not trivial to get a liquor license. (Things may have changed since I lived there, but back in the 1980s you had to go through an elaborate song and dance about alcohol. The front of the restaurant had to be designated a State Liquor Store, where you bought a bottle and carried it to your table, where a waiter opened it for you.) So a lot of restaurants did without, and prospered. There was a particularly good mesquite-grilling fish restaurant near the University. And many downtown restaurants, including quality French restaurants, served food without wine or liquor. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/8 "2007-01-11T16:00:03Z")
Lots of restaurants here don’t have a liquor license but allow you to bring your own wine for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/9 "2007-01-11T16:02:34Z")
I suppose I should narrow things down a little then - is it possible to have a successful “fine dining” restaurant without alcohol? No alcohol \*at all \* - not even beer or drinks that customers brought themselves? I suppose I can see BBQ shacks and casual places getting away with it, but not the kind of place where you’d get dressed up to eat… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/10 "2007-01-11T16:04:49Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] How do they survive then? Surely they can’t make enough from the food alone? [/QUOTE] Why do you think they couldn’t? Do you have any data to back up your side? By the way, it might make a difference if we knew (1) where this restaurant was to be located, and (2) what type of restaurant, and how upscale/modest, it would be. (And don’t call us Shirley.) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/11 "2007-01-11T16:08:54Z")
Ah, I didn’t see your last post. Still, I would think that a high-end, hoitry-toity restaurant could charge enough for food and have high enough profit margins that not making booze money wouldn’t be a problem. If they had a problem, it would be that the diners who wanted a drink with dinner wouldn’t go there at all, not that they’d lose money from all the food-only diners. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/12 "2007-01-11T16:13:55Z")
A lot of those SLC restaurants don’t allow drinks of any kind – not even bring-your-own – and still did a brisk business. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/13 "2007-01-11T16:15:12Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] I suppose I should narrow things down a little then - is it possible to have a successful “fine dining” restaurant without alcohol? No alcohol \*at all \* - not even beer or drinks that customers brought themselves? I suppose I can see BBQ shacks and casual places getting away with it, but not the kind of place where you’d get dressed up to eat… [/QUOTE] I’m racking my brain but I seem to remember a fine dining restaurant in Tempe, AZ that my wife and I used to go to that had no alcohol. It was a buddhist eastern type place… Damn what was the nam of it… It’s right on Mill Ave next o the ASU campus… DAMN! ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/14 "2007-01-11T16:18:51Z")
Wouldn’t the type of customers who go to a top-end restaurant \*expect \* a pricey bottle of vino or champagne to go with their meal? Why would they go to a restaurant that didn’t have booze at all? Would the food alone be enough to draw them? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/15 "2007-01-11T16:21:42Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] Why would they go to a restaurant that didn’t have booze at all? [/QUOTE] Why wouldn’t they? Wine prices are grossly inflated at restaurants. If the couple doesn’t drink, or drinks rarely, or are on a bit of a budget, or don’t feel like drinking that night, or…whatever, they should just stay home? They aren’t entitled to fine food just because they don’t drink? You’d be surprised how many non-drinkers there are out there. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/16 "2007-01-11T16:22:04Z")
Some of us don’t drink **BM** but still enjoy fine dining. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/17 "2007-01-11T16:22:36Z")
[QUOTE=twickster] Pennsylvania has very strict liquor laws, and it’s hard for a new restaurant to get a liquor license, so there are many successful restaurants that don’t sell booze. [/QUOTE] I remember once going to a very nice restaraunt in Pennsylvania that was BYOB. The food was outstanding, and the place appeared to be doing quite well, as it was pretty crowded for a weeknight. > [@Duke of Rat](#): > > Even bars here can’t sell mixed drinks (you bring your own booze and they’ll sell you the non-alcoholic components to make a drink). That certainly seems to stretch the definiton of “bar”. If you don’t mind my asking, where are you? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/18 "2007-01-11T16:22:41Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Lots of restaurants here don’t have a liquor license but allow you to bring your own wine for dinner. [/QUOTE] Absolutely, even fine dining restaurants can’t always get one of the fixed number of allowed liquor licenses. Restaurants are not noticeably more expensive, so I have to conclude that liquor sales, while they may be nice for profits, are not the only way to run a successful restaurant. Now, this also speaks to the general landscape of the market. I’ve been living in NJ for a year, and I now am used to the idea that most restaurants will not have liquor or beer available. If I was still in NY, I’d find it bizarre to go to a restaurant and not be able to get a glass of wine. No alcohol restaurants do brisk business in NJ, because it’s normal, they may not draw similar traffic in NY, where alcohol would be expected. My conclusion would be that you CAN run a successful restaurant without alcohol, but the market must allow for that sort of restaurant to draw customers. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/19 "2007-01-11T16:24:49Z")
The Swan Terrace restaurant, which is part of Founders Inn in Virginia Beach, VA, was successfully in business for years without serving alcohol. This policy has since changed (it had something to do with a new management and their desire to compete for some sort of restaurant rating - they couldn’t do it without having a wine list). Founders Inn is located on the same grounds as Regent University, which was founded by Pat Robertson, so that was the reason for the no-alcohol policy. AFAIK, they still do not serve hard liquor. The Inn has a four-star rating. In our area, there’s tons of Chinese restaurants - some fanicer than others - that serve nothing stronger than green tea. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/20 "2007-01-11T16:25:11Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] Wouldn’t the type of customers who go to a top-end restaurant \*expect \* a pricey bottle of vino or champagne to go with their meal? Why would they go to a restaurant that didn’t have booze at all? Would the food alone be enough to draw them? [/QUOTE] I’ve eaten in some fairly upscale restaurants (~ $135 a person without drinks) and since I don’t like wine I didn’t care if they served it or not. I imagine I’m the exception rather than the norm, but to me the food is why I’m there. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561.md?page=2)