# Successful restaurant without alcohol? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 11, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561 "2007-01-11T15:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/21 "2007-01-11T16:25:11Z")
Well I’m surprised, but frankly a little glad to hear I’m wrong on this one. Does anyone have a very rough estimate of the kind of money and capital it would take to start a fine-dining restaurant that seats about 80? How many staff would one need and where could he go to find out more about starting up a restaurant? Has anyone here on the boards ever started up a restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/22 "2007-01-11T16:28:08Z")
[QUOTE=DianaG] That certainly seems to stretch the definiton of “bar”. If you don’t mind my asking, where are you? [/QUOTE] Texas, where else? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/23 "2007-01-11T16:28:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Wouldn’t the type of customers who go to a top-end restaurant expect a pricey bottle of vino or champagne to go with their meal? Why would they go to a restaurant that didn’t have booze at all? Would the food alone be enough to draw them? In the cases in Salt Lake I mention above, it’s local restrictions (due to the prevailing religious mood) that keeps the restaurants from having wine or liquiors or beer without some kind of song-and-dance. I’m certain there are restaurants in other parts of the country, in “dry” cities or counties, that operate under similar rstrictions. If these restaurants had opened delsewhere, I’m sure they’d be serving alcoholic drinks, both because people expect them and because of the profit. But I was addressing the question in the OP – you asserted that it wasn’t possible to open a “dry” restaurant because it wouldn’t be profitable. My poingt is that there are countless counterexamples disproving this assertion. Heck, there are booze-less stripper bars in Utah, wherre the dancers can’t even strip down to less than a bikini. If ever there was a recipe for business failure it’s a stripper bar without drinks and with non-stripping strippers, right? But those places stay in business until closed down by the Utah authorities on other grounds. They’tre making m,oney. (And it’s not restricted to Utah. Years ago I was surprised to gfind the stripper bars in Baltimore not serving booze – although the strippers could strip further. That might have changed by now.) ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/24 "2007-01-11T16:31:02Z")
**Cheesesteak** mentioned thoughts similar to mine on the subject - I think a lot would depend on where the resturant is located. If it is located in an area where most fine dining establishments sell liquor, I don’t think it has much of a chance because many people do want a nice bottle of wine with dinner. If it is in a area where a lot of people don’t drink or where a liquor license is hard to get, it may have more chance of success because the patrons won’t expect to see a wine list. I don’t drink alcohol with meals, myself - for some reason (to me) it throws off the taste of the food. ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/25 "2007-01-11T16:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady] **Cheesesteak** mentioned thoughts similar to mine on the subject - I think a lot would depend on where the resturant is located. If it is located in an area where most fine dining establishments sell liquor, I don’t think it has much of a chance because many people do want a nice bottle of wine with dinner. If it is in a area where a lot of people don’t drink or where a liquor license is hard to get, it may have more chance of success because the patrons won’t expect to see a wine list. [/QUOTE] This is what I was going to say. If you are in an area where the norm is for nice restaurants to serve alcohol, I think it would probably be a problem. Even if only one person in a party wanted a drink with their meal, the whole group would likely go somewhere that could accomodate that. My husband and I expect a wine list at nice restaurants, and would be irritated in going to a new one to find that they didn’t serve any alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/26 "2007-01-11T16:59:01Z")
I think the friend in the OP could be successful if he turned his restriction into a feature. Open a fine-dining restaurant specializing in Halal cuisine to draw in a clientele that not only doesn’t mind having no alcohol, but will consider it a courtesy. You might place the emphasis on authenticity to a particular cuisine, or create a menu with a fusion Middle-Eastern/African/(fill-in-the-blank) approach. I think the friend will be better off trying to attract customers who are looking for a specific experience, rather than trying to cater to everyone’s tastes. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/27 "2007-01-11T17:06:17Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Heck, there are booze-less stripper bars in Utah, wherre the dancers can’t even strip down to less than a bikini. If ever there was a recipe for business failure it’s a stripper bar without drinks and with non-stripping strippers, right? But those places stay in business until closed down by the Utah authorities on other grounds. They’tre making m,oney. (And it’s not restricted to Utah. Years ago I was surprised to gfind the stripper bars in Baltimore not serving booze – although the strippers could strip further. That might have changed by now.) [/QUOTE] Around here the strip clubs sell drinks if the strippers only go to a G string and you have to bring your own booze into the totally nude clubs. And to explain the “bars without booze” from my previous post above, they sell beer. There is no “liquor by the drink”, but it’s not illegal to drink liquor in an establishment. There are “private clubs” that do sell mixed drinks, but sell memberships and only members are supposed to be in them. Chain resturants in dry parts of Texas can sell drinks if you purchase a UniCard, it’s like a temporary membership to a private club I guess. As was mentioned previously, if you are already accoustomed to restaurants without booze, it’s not that big of a deal. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/28 "2007-01-11T17:12:33Z")
I’ve been to places that were BYO. Keep in mind, a liquor license can be damn pricey, a several hundred thousand dollar investment. I knew the owners of a place that said that about May or June was when they finally had enough to pay the “mortgage” on the liquor license. The margins on the bottles are huge, but not quite so much when you figure in the license as part of the cost. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/29 "2007-01-11T17:27:54Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] I’m not sure if this should be in GD, Cafe Society, or here, but I’m hoping y’all can help settle an argument for me. I have a friend of mine who is a fellow food-lover and who is also a Muslim. We got into a discussion the other day about whether or not it was possible to run a successful retaurant without alcohol. [/QUOTE] Of course it is, unless you restrict the definition of ‘restaurant.’ There is a local restaurant that serves family type sit down meals and has been doing so for years. They make no bones about the fact that it is a Christian owned business, and serve no alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/30 "2007-01-11T17:30:33Z")
My friend will be so pleased. Anyone know of any resources I can point him to? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/31 "2007-01-11T17:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=twickster] Pennsylvania has very strict liquor laws, and it’s hard for a new restaurant to get a liquor license, so there are many successful restaurants that don’t sell booze. [/QUOTE] We’ve had a few here in the Chicago 'burbs as well. But those places encourage you to bring your own. Would your friend have a problem with people bringing a bottle of wine? ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/32 "2007-01-11T17:46:28Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I’m racking my brain but I seem to remember a fine dining restaurant in Tempe, AZ that my wife and I used to go to that had no alcohol. It was a buddhist eastern type place… Damn what was the nam of it… It’s right on Mill Ave next o the ASU campus… DAMN! [/QUOTE] Sahara Middle Eastern Restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/33 "2007-01-11T19:48:08Z")
[QUOTE=Caridwen] Lots of restaurants here don’t have a liquor license but allow you to bring your own wine for dinner. [/QUOTE] I actually like this setup because I have much better luck bringing a wine that I’ve picked out and am familiar with, than picking something unfamiliar from a wine list and hoping it won’t be blah. But I’ve only been to one restaurant in L.A. that operated like that, and they’ve closed down. But they’d been in business for years and years. But if Moslems want to open a restaurant in a manner that is observant of their faith, they can’t really allow alcohol even on an BYOB basis, can they? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/34 "2007-01-11T20:04:47Z")
I live in Dallas Texas and never in my life have I been to a bar that didn’t sell mixed drinks. Unless **Duke of Rat** is referring to restaurants like Hooters or Taco Cabana; I don’t know what the heck He’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/35 "2007-01-11T20:43:22Z")
[QUOTE=SHAKES] I live in Dallas Texas and never in my life have I been to a bar that didn’t sell mixed drinks. Unless **Duke of Rat** is referring to restaurants like Hooters or Taco Cabana; I don’t know what the heck He’s talking about. [/QUOTE] There is lots of Texas that’s not Dallas. I’ll try to explain. Not 6 blocks from where I sit right now, there is a bar. There are actually a cluster of several bars. You can walk into any one of them (if you are over 21) and buy a beer. You cannot buy a mixed drink. I know this because I have been in all of them at one time or another. The reason for this is because this town voted down something know as “liquor by the drink”. I can carry a bottle of whiskey into any of these bars and drink it as long as the bottle is kept capped between pours. They enforce this by requiring you to have the bottle laying on it’s side while not being poured from (I’m not making this up). I cannot bring beer into these bars, as they sell beer in the bar. Likewise I cannot bring a Coke into them because they sell Coke to be mixed with whiskey. They do not serve food. Go to [Plano](http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/993134/posts), it’s dry. > [@](#): > > State records list 51 of Texas’ 254 counties as entirely dry. Until 1972, you could not legally buy mixed drinks anywhere in Texas. > > “The wettest you could be was to sell beer and wine for on- or off-premises consumption and sell packaged liquors,” Mr. Bright said. > > But in 1972, Texas voters passed a constitutional amendment allowing localities to permit sales of mixed drinks, including liquor by the drink — **but only those places that had voted for the amendment**. I live in one of the places that didn’t vote for the amendment. No liquor by the drink. Now if you go another 1/2 mile, you’ll come to a “private club”. Looks just like any other bar, except in it you can buy mixed drinks. It’ll cost you $25/year to be a member and you have to sign a register every time you go in. You cannot bring whiskey or beer into the private club. They do not serve food. Now Amarillo is only half dry. The restaurants along I-40 cannot sell alcohol unless you buy a UniCard (same as in the Hooters in Plano, FWIW). These are not what I consider bars, they serve food. Restaurants on the other side of town can sell mixed drinks without a UniCard, the portion of Amarillo that is not dry has approved liquor by the drink. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2007, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/36 "2007-01-11T23:12:43Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] My friend will be so pleased. Anyone know of any resources I can point him to? [/QUOTE] I don’t really want to rain on anyone’s parade, but I wanted to point out that, liquor or no liquor, opening a restaurant is a very risky thing; most restaurants fail; and I would be willing to bet that an even higher percentage of expensive restaurants fail. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/37 "2007-01-12T09:56:51Z")
[QUOTE=Reno Nevada] I don’t really want to rain on anyone’s parade, but I wanted to point out that, liquor or no liquor, opening a restaurant is a very risky thing; most restaurants fail; and I would be willing to bet that an even higher percentage of expensive restaurants fail. [/QUOTE] Good point. That’s why it’s probably best if he goes into this with his eyes wide open and with as much useful information as he can possibly get his hands on… ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/38 "2007-01-12T12:37:17Z")
[QUOTE=Book Monster] Wouldn’t the type of customers who go to a top-end restaurant \*expect \* a pricey bottle of vino or champagne to go with their meal? Why would they go to a restaurant that didn’t have booze at all? Would the food alone be enough to draw them? [/QUOTE] Hey, I don’t drink alcohol at all. Well, OK, I lied: a beer per year or thereabouts. I recall an “impromptu” banquet my family had… we all happened to be in the same town at the same time. We figured that there was no way we could all fit in a single restaurant without warning and split in small 4-5 people groups. So we go to our favourite, Casa Mauleón. One of my uncles was there with his wife and Grandmother. As we were getting in line behind them, another uncle appeared. Mr Mauleón was greeting us all when one of Dad’s cousins popped in… and Mr. Mauleón, being a very intelligent man, asked “oh boy… D. Julio is dying, right?” (my greatuncle, whose illness had been used as an excuse to vacation in town by relatives who lived elsewhere) “Uh yes” “How many of you were in the hospital?” “About 70” “Paco! Open the small room!” Room official size: 67. Occupancy that day: 78. People who drank: half a dozen. Usually when I eat out I see about half the people drinking. Many of those who drink take one, maybe two glasses of wine; perhaps a glass of liquor after dessert. But make it an event where others pay (a wedding or they’re on corporate expenses) and suddenly it’s like you can’t eat so much as buttered bread without downing a liter of white. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/39 "2007-01-12T12:40:43Z")
Oh, and the restaurant could still offer non-alky drinks. Depending on what the foodstuffs are, this can go from having water with varying degrees of gas (in Central Europe you often get your choice of “flat, medium, full or San Pellegrino”) to sodas to hot and cold teas to 0.0 beer to fruity drinks. I mean, “non alcohol” doesn’t mean everybody has to drink water. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561/40 "2007-01-12T16:20:06Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] I can carry a bottle of whiskey into any of these bars and drink it as long as the bottle is kept capped between pours. They enforce this by requiring you to have the bottle laying on it’s side while not being poured from (I’m not making this up). [/QUOTE] We should start a thread sometime to collect in one place all the dumbass liquor laws this country has … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/successful-restaurant-without-alcohol/387561.md?page=3)