# Succession on HBO **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [June 4, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428 "2018-06-04T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/441 "2023-05-18T14:13:30Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > The recounts then began, with hanging chads and multiple court cases. _Bush v Gore_ went to the Supreme Court, which decided that the recounts should stop. As Bush was ahead at the point (by a few hundred votes) this in effect gave Florida, and the presidency, to Bush. This sounds as if they went for the “Called legitimate” president, and the recount wasn’t finished. Whether it was halfway through or not, that doesn’t really matter, the count is unfinished and perhaps were sorted (probably unintentionally, but maybe not) to count Bush first and has about as much legitimacy as no count at all. In which case the Call did make the difference, and the Supreme Court back the one who was called. An unfinished count isn’t legitimacy. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/442 "2023-05-18T14:18:38Z")
No, not really (and this is veering into P&E territory). Bush won Florida because after the votes were counted and recounted, he had more votes. Each recount, though, whittled away at Bush’s lead. Continuing recounts could have possibly resulted in Gore overtaking Bush; or maybe not. But by stopping the recount the court froze the vote count at a point where Bush had the lead. What the networks said 4 weeks prior was not at all relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/443 "2023-05-18T17:05:48Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > Do you mind listing them? I’ve probably forgotten a lot of them, I’m sure others have as well. Be nice a nice reminder as we head into the final two episodes I mean, what happened to the book that was being written about them is one. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/444 "2023-05-18T18:24:13Z")
Some interesting insights into the character here: [How Brian Cox Felt About That Big Episode 3 Twist in ‘Succession’ - The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/09/arts/television/brian-cox-succession.html) And you may have seen Cox in some funny ads recently: [DIRECTV | Overly Direct Spokesperson | Direct Spokesperson - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxFjawFMdJ8) Not to mention: [Michelob ULTRA (Ft. Serena Williams and Brian Cox) | Super Bowl 2023 LVII (57) Commercial - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMoUHt4gFyM) And unofficially: [Succession meets McDonalds - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdPXGCEoeTs) ---
**Author:** ![SlipperyPete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@SlipperyPete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlipperyPete)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/445 "2023-05-18T21:00:37Z")
I just have to say that I was DYING laughing after that entire wasabi incident and some of Greg’s and Tom’s lines were hysterical, and masterfully delivered. “Guys! It’s not that lemony!” had me in stitches as well as Tom’s final deadpan “Greg! Do not put any more lemon water or wasabi in his eyes, ok?!” ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/446 "2023-05-18T21:07:25Z")
The whole episode was a great one for the Tom 'n Greg Show. I enjoyed it immensely. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/447 "2023-05-18T21:27:22Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > It seems to me like Kendall finally became his dad last night: he put the final bit of “good guy” to bed, and did what was best for the business, his kids be damned. I think in Kendall’s mind what is good for the business is good for his kids. Which I suppose is a main theme of the show how everyone but Logan is a hypocrite because ultimately everything they do is about money (I say everyone but Logan because he never makes a pretense of being about anything else). The Roy kids are pretty freakin weird and awkward IMHO. Like the episode where they went to a regular bar then a karaoke bar, I thought they were all going to get murdered. I’m trying to figure out how the show is going to end. Are they going to have some sort of “Rosebud” moment? Is the GoJo / Wayster takeover going to mirror the AOL and /or AT&T takeovers of HBO (widely regarded as a couple of the worst in history)? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/448 "2023-05-18T21:36:23Z")
Is Greg the only one that’s had any sort of character arc? It feels like everyone else is exactly the same person they were in episode 1. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/449 "2023-05-18T22:50:31Z")
I want Gerri to take over and fire all of the kids. ---
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2023, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/450 "2023-05-18T23:53:47Z")
This…X100 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/451 "2023-05-19T10:16:26Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Is Greg the only one that’s had any sort of character arc? It feels like everyone else is exactly the same person they were in episode 1. Well I’m not that sure that any of the siblings are able to change _that_ much. Perhaps that’s part of the point. They are deeply damaged by their upbringing and do the same to those around them. (Logan’s legacy) It may be that Greg and Tom, being from _outside_ so to speak, have the most scope for character development but I’m not convinced we are going to see a Damascene conversion for anyone. Seduction by the dark side is rather more likely. They’ll likely all end up broken, in different ways and by different people but broken nonetheless. Knowing Jesse Armstrong that’d certainly be in keeping with his previous work and let’s be honest, none of the main characters actually deserve a happy ending or any sort of victory other than pyrrhic. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/452 "2023-05-19T10:51:38Z")
You have to view it in the context of America’s collapsing democracy. Bush won over Gore in a judicial coup and we almost had a second coup on January 6. Supporters of the Republican candidate on the show almost certainly caused the fire that destroyed ballots cast for Jimenez, so when ATN called it, it gave Republicans the fig leaf to claim power. You might not remember the Brooks Brothers Riot, but the writers certainly do. > **[Brooks Brothers riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot)** > > The Brooks Brothers riot was a demonstration led by Republican staffers at a meeting of election canvassers in Miami-Dade County, Florida, on November 22, 2000, during a recount of votes made during the 2000 United States presidential election, with the goal of shutting down the recount. After demonstrations and acts of violence, local officials shut down the recount early. This had the effect of ensuring that the December 12 "safe harbor" deadline set by Title 3 of the United States Code could... ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/453 "2023-05-19T10:54:15Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > You might not remember the Brooks Brothers Riot, but the writers certainly do. Sure, I trust the writers to have constructed an internal rationale and consistency that works for most people. It was just a minor misfire for me personally. Doesn’t detract overall from a great show. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/454 "2023-05-19T12:02:44Z")
I think it’s a misfire from you because you come from a more functional democracy. I’m envious and wish this show didn’t land so well for me. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/455 "2023-05-19T15:00:19Z")
Someone wrote a funny Tinder profile for Greg: [https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=143984201954714&set=a.101299199556548](https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=143984201954714&set=a.101299199556548) ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/456 "2023-05-19T15:53:38Z")
This was mostly answered, but re: the Florida 2000 calls. The AP/Networks _first called it for Gore_ at a normal time that night. Then they retracted the call for Gore. Then, after midnight, called it for Bush. Then a few hours later retracted that call for Bush. In that time, Gore conceded and unconceded. Then the lawyers and recounts and Court stuff happened over the course of many weeks as described in other posts. I don’t think the network calls had anything to do with why Florida ultimately went to Bush. The network calls went both ways and were retracted within hours. To keep this relevant to Succession, there are not calls going both ways. Just for Mencken. And I get the feeling it will not be retracted anytime soon. The longer it’s out there, the longer it carries some weight. We are still unclear on whether it’s just ATN’s call, or have others done the same. If others also made the call, it would add more weight. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/457 "2023-05-19T16:33:10Z")
I think the main thing is that it allowed Mencken to give the speech declaring himself the winner and Jimenez is pissed off at the group and will do what he can to destroy ATN’s ambitions if he wins. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/458 "2023-05-19T18:32:04Z")
Agreed. Good take. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/459 "2023-05-19T19:43:03Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think it’s a misfire from you because you come from a more functional democracy. I’m envious and wish this show didn’t land so well for me. Well I think “more functional” is a low bar at the moment but yes, it is somewhat less poisonously partisan and certainly less theatrical and dramatic on election night. It has been very informative to get the various views of our USA cousins though. It has filled in some gaps for me. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2023, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/460 "2023-05-19T21:07:02Z")
It’s kind of like how Europeans were confused that Walter white had to turn to a life of crime in Breaking Bad to pay for healthcare. Totally believable to Americans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428.md?page=24)