# Succession on HBO **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [June 4, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428 "2018-06-04T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/541 "2023-05-29T12:23:31Z")
I woke up thinking about the show. My favorite moment might be Tom putting a sticker on Greg. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/542 "2023-05-29T14:55:37Z")
- Makes perfect sense in “Succession” world that, even when the female Roy heir gets to cast the deciding vote, it doesn’t put her on top – it puts her yes-man husband on top. - The pressure on Jesse Armstrong to produce a spinoff must be immense! (“Boar on the Floor,” perhaps?) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/543 "2023-05-29T15:29:21Z")
Shiv’s choice came down to Ken or Tom. Once she realized that Tom would be the one if she voted Yes, the choice was easy. Tom genuinely values her opinion and will take her advice, he truly does love her and he’s the father of her child. Ken has no redeeming qualities at all and he’s far less competent. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/544 "2023-05-29T15:49:56Z")
Looking at where the kids end up: Roman seems at peace, he actively broke from these monsters and seemed to have a moment of clarity when he realized they were bullshit. Kendal seems shattered, but it could be the best thing for him, stop fighting for primacy on this pile of bullshit, get sober and try to do something with your life. Shiv is trapped in this world, she’s tied to Tom with a kid and a toxic marriage, she still didn’t break the cycle of dysfunction. Connor is Connor. I loved this show, but I’m glad it’s over and I’m done with these people. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/545 "2023-05-29T15:52:49Z")
Strikes me as the Roy kids were still in a state of arrested development (another great show about the kids of rich person). We saw that in a happy way when they were in the kitchen, cutting up and giving Kendall the meal fit for a king. And then we saw it in a negative way in that side room during the board meeting, with literal fighting (grappling?). I seriously thought that Kendall was going in that elevator to throw himself out the top floor. And he may try anyways - seems like it really was his only thing. Though he has 2 billion reasons to find something else. Tom winning the game (somewhat) and playing the maybe something can work between us game with Shiv was interesting to see. As well as claiming Greg with his sticker, lol. Roman at the end realized everything was just bullshit and being ok with it seemed to be the only semi happy moment for one of the “troika” It was highly entertaining seeing Willa’s face when Shiv mentioned the Wisconsin court challenge and that Menekin may not win after all and she’ll have to live with Connor. Best scene was the kids watching the video of Logan and reaching out to each other. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/546 "2023-05-29T16:10:48Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I loved this show, but I’m glad it’s over and I’m done with these people. This. Although I’m not sure I’d say I _loved_ the show, more that I appreciated how well done it was in every respect. But there wasn’t a single person I liked or cared about, except maybe Kendall’s wife and kids, who weren’t really essential parts of the story. In the fight scene when the three were talking about the bloodline, and Roman said that Logan didn’t consider Ken’s kids real family, I briefly thought about going back to watch some of the scenes with Logan and the kids to see how that was presaged. But I really don’t want to watch any of _Succession_ over again. It’s just too unpleasant. I think _Succession_ is probably every bit as good as the show I consider the best TV show ever made: _The Wire._ But I have happily watched every episode of that show _many_ times (well, except season five, which went off the rails). I like even the most despicable characters in _The Wire_ – eg Marlo and Avon – better than any of the main characters on _Succession._ ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/547 "2023-05-29T16:15:05Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > In the fight scene when the three were talking about the bloodline, and Roman said that Logan didn’t consider Ken’s kids real family, I briefly thought about going back to watch some of the scenes with Logan and the kids to see how that was presaged. I believe that Kendal’s kids are adopted, thus not real Roy’s to Roman. I’ve never been one who needs likable characters in my art, just compelling ones and this show delivered it in spades. Roman wrapped it up nicely, this is all bullshit. It’s satire of the current state of America, it’s all bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/548 "2023-05-29T16:23:15Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > I’m not sure I understand why Ewan voted along with the boys. He knows they’re soulless idiots. He knew they would ruin the company and that’s what he wants? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/549 "2023-05-29T16:29:27Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Roman seems at peace, he actively broke from these monsters and seemed to have a moment of clarity when he realized they were bullshit. Roman is in the same place as that 20yo who is barely on the rails because of his parents, then the parents die and leave him a bunch of money. Hell, so is Kendall. Both of these guys are going to spiral quite a bit, they have the means to do so, and none of the typical social boundaries to stop them from indulging their worst impulses are in place. Shiv won’t. Well, she _will_, but in her own way. Zero chance of her and Tom making it work. If I recall correctly, their shares were about $2 billion for each kid. The bump from the original offer of, what, $148 to $192, probably netted another $500-600 million each. I also seem to recall that they had 5% of outstanding shares each, which comes out to a purchase price of $50,000,000,000. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/550 "2023-05-29T16:33:56Z")
Would like to note that the three siblings still have an outstanding offer to Pierce for $10 billion. The dropping of this plot line has been, for me, a weak part of the storytelling. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/551 "2023-05-29T16:48:04Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I like even the most despicable characters in _The Wire_ – eg Marlo and Avon – better than any of the main characters on _Succession._ They at least lived by a code of ethics. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/552 "2023-05-29T16:54:21Z")
It felt a bit bloated to me. I loved the _Barry_ finale – in just 30 minutes, it was tight and felt right. Watching this finale, I wanted them to keep things moving much more than they did. I did like that Shiv was very much _not_ holding Tom’s hand in the limo. All she was doing was resting her fingers on his palm. Very telling. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/553 "2023-05-29T17:02:02Z")
It’s entirely possible that both Roman and Kendal just spiral out, but the fact is that trying to follow in their father’s footsteps was hopeless and just replicated the cycle of dysfunction that Logan set up when they were kids. Maybe by Getting out, there is a chance for something better. Shiv is just screwed. She’s still in that world and she’ll spend a few more years fighting these pointless battles while she raises a little sociopathic monster like her parents did before her. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/554 "2023-05-29T19:19:10Z")
Enjoyed the episode and it ended along expected lines but thinking of the show as a whole it was highly entertaining scene by scene and episode by episode but struggled to create interesting season long arcs. In the earlier seasons it was pretty much Kendall rebels and is beaten down by Logan and in this one it was Kendall getting beaten down by Mattson. They also struggled to integrate the main story with politics. This happened first with Eavis and then with Mencken. They seemed important for a while and then their plotlines just fizzled out. I think the show would have been better with more politics more tightly wound up with the main succession battle. That is what seemed to be happening in the second-last episode but the politics barely mattered in the finale. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/555 "2023-05-29T21:01:11Z")
I thought this was a fun joint interview with Matthew MacFadyen and Nicholas Braun on their characters in the series, so I’m sharing it for others who might enjoy it, too. Gift link: > **[In ‘Succession,’ Tom and Greg Were Never Playing the Long Game](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/29/arts/television/succession-matthew-macfadyen-nicholas-braun-tom-and-greg.html?unlocked_article_code=g_qbLuBdt2H6_fPIlYg4g6Akh--uBfVOWlsXtTqCyQ2q2b-yuSo33KnLijwy_Ih5IF4UqzSCBOna-nXpMWBNkMts3wfcq5R8X-HLHJhg08PIE-IobRYVfbpp2VR1uItcVVKTHhYzZuzy-8mV5K0Ijhf0jlVuqFbVI0PyR-MiuuA1gehXo2wHyeOCK5e3lsMr-EFpMOuAjAmiUZ7Xpz-2amGI3_xwUclGUwWfk72mDQ_o9TK4LliI2-vr5xK0SfYR1WKaftVmk7iOvKRbl8rD5waZfmfVFejFznCpCOuWlzC5UxIRYmESkUaAWzr9X_48VesvCWLHpbbpHG3ybp9rV-dBnjwuQcxmmdnaFeYApSQNpfd_QmKjklU9Q2HqrTHaVKtqu9Bs5iBbhNw&smid=url-share)** > > In a joint interview Monday morning, Matthew Macfadyen and Nicholas Braun reflected on their characters’ bond and their big finale slap fight. “It was real,” Macfadyen said. I particularly enjoyed this exchange in the discussion: > **Is this a good ending for Greg, in thrall to Tom forever at a greatly reduced salary?** > > **BRAUN** It’s a good résumé builder: Put a big position on LinkedIn; get the headhunters involved for the better salary somewhere else. > > **Do you think he can leave Tom?** > > **BRAUN** For Greg, that’s always in his mind. Like, “Do I need this? Do I need to feel this bad at work?” I also don’t know if he’s going to cut my salary. I think he could like triple it. Easily. > > **MACFADYEN** You’ll be head of dismissals. > > **BRAUN** Chief H.R. officer. Walking down the hall, every office: “You’re fired.” As ever, they’re clever together. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/556 "2023-05-29T22:50:45Z")
Cool story in the [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/29/sports/baseball/tom-bill-wambsganss-succession.html) about former MLB player (1914-1926) [Bill Wambsganss](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wambsbi01.shtml) and Succession. Supposedly, a bunch of Succession fans thought Wambganss was an intentional spoiler in the show. At best a mediocre player, Wambsganss enduring claim-to-fame was being the only player in MLB history to record an unassisted triple play in the World Series. Get it? Taking three people out in one go? It seems a bit farfetched, although there aren’t a lot of people wandering around with that unusual name. Probably the best part of the article are the quotes from NYTimes report from game five of the 1920 World Series between Cleveland (Wambsganss team) and the Brooklyn Dodgers. The action picks up in the fifth inning with nobody out, Pete Kilduff on second and Otto Miller on first. The hitter, Clarence Mitchell, hit a line drive that seemed headed for the outfield: > Wambganss "leaped over toward the cushion and with a mighty jump speared the ball with one hand,” the paper reported. “Wamby’s noodle began to operate faster than it ever did before,” the article continued. “He hopped over to second and touched the bag, retiring Kilduff, who was far down the alley toward third base.” With two outs already having been recorded on the play, Wambsganss turned his attention to Miller.“Otto was evidently so surprised that he was just glued to the ground, and Wamby just waltzed over and touched him for the third out,” the paper reported. I love the part about Wamby’s ‘noodle’ kicking into high gear. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/557 "2023-05-29T23:15:45Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I think _Succession_ is probably every bit as good as the show I consider the best TV show ever made: _The Wire._ But I have happily watched every episode of that show _many_ times (well, except season five, which went off the rails). I like even the most despicable characters in _The Wire_ – eg Marlo and Avon – better than any of the main characters on _Succession._ I think Succession is very very good, but definitely a cut below the absolutely peak TV shows of the past few decades, of which _The Wire_ is (imho) the very best. Succession has amazing characters and acting. But it really struggles, plot-wise. Storylines appear, are super-ultra-mega-important for a few episodes, and then are dropped. And character arcs (which are of course very important in fictionalized storytelling) take precedence over anything else. As an example from the finale, how on earth did Rome go from where we saw him last (getting beaten up by protestors in NYC, but firmly on Kendall’s side as far as everyone knows) to where he is a day later (with his mom, in the Caribbean, but no one knows he’s there, and suddenly no one is confident of his position). Obviously that’s where the writers and the plot need him to be so that the wonderful 3-siblings-in-the-kitchen scene can happen… but I definitely feel like the writers wanted that scene to happen and then just sort of, poof, the setup was what they needed. In any plot or business development in the Succession universe, what happens is not dictated by what makes fiscal/logistical/logical/real-world sense. Rather, it’s dictated by what leads the main characters to be in the emotional state that the writers want them to be in. Which doesn’t make it a bad show… but I don’t think Breaking Bad would “cheat” that badly. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/558 "2023-05-30T00:33:54Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > how on earth did Rome go from where we saw him last (getting beaten up by protestors in NYC, but firmly on Kendall’s side as far as everyone knows) But was he on Kendall’s side at that point? The reason he went out to the protest was because Kendall had just figuratively beaten him up with his “you fucked up” speech, something that Kendall had done to him all his life. In this case, Roman responds to that with wanting to be literally beaten up. (I won’t get into the psychological reasons for that.) He was afraid that Kendall was going to find a way to shut him out, again. And Kendall knew that when Roman disappeared, _he_ had fucked up and probably lost his support, again. And, of course, Shiv picked up on that. Just the same patterns playing out over and over. I think Roman finally realized that when he said that they were bullshit, it all was bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/559 "2023-05-30T01:57:52Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > But it really struggles, plot-wise. Storylines appear, are super-ultra-mega-important for a few episodes, and then are dropped. Now that you mention it, I think you’re on to something. Each season of _The Wire_ took you on a journey from start to finish. _Succession_’s seasons didn’t seem anywhere near so coherent, and threw a lot of characters at you, particularly politicians, who were obviously well-known in-universe, but not well-developed for the viewers, at least not without going back to replay parts. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > And character arcs (which are of course very important in fictionalized storytelling) take precedence over anything else. But did any of the characters actually have an arc? That is, did anyone change, learn a lesson, become a different person? It seems to me that with the possible exception of Greg, who started out as a naive bumbler, and sank into the amoral morass of the main characters, all of the rest of them were exactly the same at the end of Season 5 as they were in Season 1, Episode 1. The only thing any of them seems to have learned is what Roman says at the end: “It’s all bullshit.” Thinking more and more about it, and reading comments here, I’m lowering my opinion of the show. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2023, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/560 "2023-05-30T03:56:53Z")
I wonder if Shiv is wondering which one of Logan’s wives she will turn in to, as the wife of the head of the world’s biggest company. She knows that things didn’t go well for any of them. For me the most poignant scene in this season was when Roman broke down at the funeral and nobody rushed to comfort him. Then the siblings kind of tried to comfort him but they were more worried about optics and who would finish the speech. Nobody is here for these people. Granted they have mostly pushed everyone away. But they’re all just floating along in crystal bubbles. Roman’s reactions to Logan’s death really wrecked me tho. My own dad died recently. We got a call about them doing CPR on him too. It was a rough watch for me from episode 3 on. I too am glad these doofuses are gone from my tv. I get tired of rich people. At least we got to see some genuine feelings from them before we sent them off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428.md?page=29)