# Succession on HBO **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [June 4, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428 "2018-06-04T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/121 "2021-12-13T15:13:56Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Favorite line of the episode: “We just walked in mom and dad fucking (us).” Of course their idea of being fucked still leaves them fabulously wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/122 "2021-12-13T15:38:40Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > > [@Lantern2](#): > > > > There was a lot of excitement about new media some years back but it’s been a struggle for ad dollars against the twin juggernauts of Google and Facebook. > > Connor was really upset about the ‘merger of equals’ because GoJo is trying to deplatform people like him, which makes me think GoJo is basically a Twitter sized company at least. But likely even bigger, due to it’s streaming service. I think it’s supposed to be pretty massive horizontally integrated company. The acquisition almost seems to harken back to Amazon buying the Washington Post. Possible but the palpable desperation of Waystar to merge still doesn’t seem very realistic. The real Fox Corp is a very stable and profitable business which,while it isn’t growing much, definitely doesn’t need to merge with a tech startup or anyone else. Indeed given the likely older skew of its audience, it’s not clear what the benefits for Waystar for a merger would be. It’s not as if young people will suddenly watch conservative content because it’s available on Gojo. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/123 "2021-12-13T15:52:21Z")
I think Waystar’s conservative news channel is only one part of the business. I think they own a movie studio and possibly entertainment channels, so that part might appeal to younger people? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/124 "2021-12-13T16:02:31Z")
Possible but you could just cut a deal where Waystar distributes its content on Gojo. It’s not clear what benefits a full-fledged merger would bring and why Waystar would be so desperate for one. Has there ever been a merger between a tech and media company which has been a success? AOL-Time Warner of course was a notorious disaster and I can’t think of any which have worked. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/125 "2021-12-13T16:12:34Z")
This isn’t a show concerned with the practicalities of business, to be fair. _Mad Men_ was far better at displaying real corporate machinations and subterfuge. And they aren’t on _Earth_. They’re on _Succession Earth_, so the market conditions are likely different, shall we say. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/126 "2021-12-13T16:15:54Z")
I keep seeing parallels to real-world situations, particularly Fox and the Murdoch family. I think Rupert Murdoch had one or more late-in-life children (with Wendy Deng, I think) and made sure that the minor child received their fair share of his estate, which of course reduced the amount the adult children would receive. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/127 "2021-12-13T17:55:27Z")
> [@Lantern2](#): > > Possible but you could just cut a deal where Waystar distributes its content on Gojo. It’s not clear what benefits a full-fledged merger would bring and why Waystar would be so desperate for one. Has there ever been a merger between a tech and media company which has been a success? AOL-Time Warner of course was a notorious disaster and I can’t think of any which have worked. Gojo obviously doesn’t want a licensing deal. And Waystar wanted to acquire Gojo to begin with. It’s just because of the falling market cap and Logan basically thinking none of his kids are good enough to run the company when he’s gone, that he’s decided maybe selling it to someone who seems to be his equal in business makes sense. And this isn’t a merger anymore, it’s an acquisition. And I think Amazon’s acquisition of the Washington Post worked well. Granted most of the recent acquisitions of media companies are by telecommunications companies (Comcast buying NBC, AT&T buying Warnermedia) but it seems to make some sense to me that a massive company that looks like a cross between Netflix and Twitter would be able to make the deal. Let’s also remember the real 21st Century FOX sold off a LOT of its assets (including movie studios) to Disney not that long ago, and renamed the remainder as Fox Corp. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/128 "2021-12-13T18:31:14Z")
Nitpick but Amazon didn’t purchase The Washington Post. Instead Jeff Bezos did. And yes, AT&T bought Warner but more recently they spun it off in a merger with Discovery. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lantern2/32/3010_2.png) [@Lantern2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern2)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/129 "2021-12-13T18:35:06Z")
I don’t think Amazon acquired Wapo; it was Bezos acting in a personal capacity. It was definitely not a merger of Amazon and Wapo. Back in the day, Microsoft made some moves in the media industry like creating Slate and investing in MSNBC but I don’t they were particularly successful in business terms. Coming back to the story, I do think there is something to the idea of Logan basically giving up on all his children and deciding that Mattson might be the person to take the company into the future. Still in the general background seems to be the idea that Waystar is doomed without the merger which is what I am skeptical about. Of course you could argue that Waystar is in a much weaker position than the real Fox Corp because of the assorted shenanigans of the previous seasons. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/130 "2021-12-13T18:38:28Z")
> [@Lantern2](#): > > Still in the general background seems to be the idea that Waystar is doomed without the merger which is what I am skeptical about. Of course you could argue that Waystar is in a much weaker position than the real Fox Corp because of the assorted shenanigans of the previous seasons. Wasn’t Fox in really bad financial position which made it sell off significant assets to Disney? And likely the reason that Disney or Comcast didn’t buy the entire company was because of FCC regulations preventing broadcast networks owning each other. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/131 "2021-12-13T18:52:54Z")
And let’s remember that GoJo doesn’t really have a one-to-one analogue in our world. It’s a streaming service that also has a large social media component and is into betting, etc. For comparison, Netflix has a market cap of $267bil, which is larger than any telecommunications company. We don’t know GoJo is as big as Netflix, but it seems big enough. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/132 "2021-12-13T18:57:17Z")
Just some thoughts. While it’s presented that Logan “won” - I don’t think the deal is done. Just that the 3 kids can’t legally block it. With that, I’m trying to think of ways it could come undone. There’s something about Kendall’s (paraphrasing) “I’m putting everything out there” and also his later coming clean about killing the kid. Kendall has made peace with that. Logan maybe doesn’t want anyone to know he facilitated the coverup/met with parents/etc. Could getting that info out be a plausible way to kill the deal? Also, Connor has always been presented as powerless, because it’s true. He’s now fed up at not being in the loop/not have any sway. One way to get power is to become a Presidential nominee/President. Seems like that will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/133 "2021-12-13T18:58:37Z")
It was hilarious when Logan called Kendall his oldest son. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/134 "2021-12-13T19:11:02Z")
This show interests me less for the the real-life parallels to Fox mergers/Murdoch family and more for the utter dysfunction of every character. They’re all so awful! I liked last night’s episode and look forward to next season. Roman’s anguish over having to choose his siblings’ side over his father’s was riveting. And as @JohnT points out, definitely a scary moment for him as he realized he’d lost not only his father, but Geri, too. As for Tom’s new alliance with the Greg-weiler, that seems ill-conceived on Tom’s part. Has there ever been any evidence that Greg is capable of an Attack Dog mode? He’s the most self-indulgent, unqualified wishy-washy player on the field. Can’t say I was sorry to see Shiv suffer the realization that it was her own husband who fucked her plans. Interesting was seeing Kendall as the most sympathetic, reality-based character of the bunch at this juncture. And considering how he laughed at Roman’s joke about how much more inconvenienced he was at Shiv’s wedding than the dead waiter because he had to wait 45 minutes for a gin and tonic, that ain’t saying much. Alexander Skarsgård’s acting in this show is fantastic. It is so nuanced! He layers deliberate, gratuitous charm on top of what is a positively reptilian character. He’s not lying when he says he’s a killer, that he “reams people, juices them like oranges,” in Episode 8. He has all the qualities that Logan most admires. I’ll eagerly await what next season brings. I’m glad to see it appears Matthew Macfadyen will have an even more forward role in whatever transpires. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/135 "2021-12-13T19:35:18Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > While it’s presented that Logan “won” - I don’t think the deal is done. Just that the 3 kids can’t legally block it. In the real world, this is the time when all parties lawyer up, they stop meeting each other face to face, and the number of lawsuits involving the four kids, Logan, Catherine, and the corporate entity (and, what the hell, a lawsuit-happy shareholders group, _as well as Mattson_) could reach 9 factorial. 😉 In the show world, this won’t happen. That would be boring. So I have no idea what is going to happen, but it won’t be a bunch of people giving years of depositions. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/136 "2021-12-13T22:04:35Z")
I think that was actually Kendall who referred to himself as Logan’s eldest. ---
**Author:** ![rejemy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@rejemy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rejemy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/137 "2021-12-14T01:31:15Z")
It was interesting watching Logan throw everything (his company, his kids) to the wind in his headlong rush to complete this ever-worsening deal. He went from “Gojo can fuck off!” to “We have to finish this deal tonight before I lose $5 billion in market cap”. I have a feeling that if, say, Shiv had been managing this deal and came to Logan and said “Oh, that tech company we wanted to acquire? They no longer want a merger of equals, now they just want to buy us out, oh and also you’d be out as CEO.” he would have laughed and her face and told her to get real and fuck off, even if she presented the EXACT DEAL he himself was in the midst of crafting. ---
**Author:** ![Uncle\_Jocko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uncle_jocko/32/2932_2.png) [@Uncle\_Jocko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncle_Jocko)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/138 "2021-12-14T02:31:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think Waystar’s conservative news channel is only one part of the business. I think they own a movie studio and possibly entertainment channels, so that part might appeal to younger people? Cruise ships (remember the entire scandal with rapes/murders covered up on the cruises) and theme parks (that’s where Greg got his start!), among others. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/139 "2021-12-14T10:51:14Z")
WELL, that last episode left me with goosebumps. It was Machiavellian deliciousness all the way. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/140 "2021-12-14T11:35:43Z")
I also sometimes forget that Conner is actually the oldest Roy child. The Roy kids are acting as if they are going to be penniless after the merger. Even if they get kicked out of the company, don’t they all own significant shares of Waystar? A few episodes ago, Logan was dangling a multi-billion dollar buyout in front of Kendall. Are they just bent out of shape that they will loose the prestige of having bullshit titles for a company they appear to have no interest in actually running and will be left struggling to make ends meet on a few billion dollars? Good for Tom, actually starting to make moves as opposed to simply being Shiv’s handbag. Even Greg with his “deal with the Devil” seems like he’s realizing he has to pick sides and better pick correctly and can’t just “wishy-wash” his way along for the ride, otherwise he actually will be penniless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428.md?page=8)