# Succession on HBO **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [June 4, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428 "2018-06-04T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/161 "2021-12-16T10:24:30Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > I didn’t read it as that. I didn’t take it as serious. Just the usual Roman sick joke. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/162 "2021-12-16T15:49:50Z")
saw where some fans are upset because Shiv’s outfits in the last 2 episodes were not good. They say they were also way too cheap for someone with her money. I agree the white dress for the wedding made her butt look big. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/163 "2021-12-16T15:56:35Z")
… man, the things y’all complain about! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mittens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@Mittens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mittens)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/164 "2021-12-16T16:30:01Z")
Regarding Gerri’s invitation to the wedding: Isn’t she Shiv’s godmother? I have a vague recollection this was mentioned last season (prior to Shiv’s wedding). That might explain why Caroline would include her (on top of Logan’s own reasons). ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/165 "2021-12-16T16:42:11Z")
> [@Mittens](#): > > Gerri’s invitation to the wedding: Isn’t she Shiv’s godmother? That she is… though now I’m amused thinking of Gerri teaching Shiv the Christian faith. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2021, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/166 "2021-12-16T18:51:33Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > thinking of Gerri teaching Shiv the Christian faith. ‘See, Shiv, Jesus didn’t chase the money _lenders_ from the Temple, but the money _changers_. What this means is Jesus was _for_ banks and lending w/ interest, but _against_ overreaching governments with their fake fiat currencies. In short, Jesus was arguing for the gold standard. And, given that he was the Son of God, he likely supported Bitcoin too.’ ‘Wow, Aunt Gerri, no wonder Jesus loves Daddy so much as to give him this house!’ ‘Blasphemy! Your father WORKED for every penny he has! Jesus isn’t a Communist!’ … probably something like the above… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/167 "2022-01-07T20:14:57Z")
I finished S3 a few days ago and mostly enjoyed the ride, although I agree the Kendall-versus-Logan shtick is wearing a bit thin. Glad to see the siblings finally teaming up in the last episode… for all the good it did them. Loved that Shiv’s smartphone graphic for DAD’s incoming call is a picture of Saddam Hussein. Glad to see Logan’s second wife return with a sharp lawyer to get her pound of flesh for reuniting and pretending to be happily married. I kind of wish we’d actually seen the Raisin (the older, losing-his-marbles Republican President from California). I was thinking it might be a good role for someone like Jack Nicholson, Jeff Bridges, Dennis Quaid or even (for a POTUS trifecta with _The Dead Zone_ and _The West Wing_) Martin Sheen. Connor’s glee when the Raisin said he wouldn’t run for reelection was hilarious. Shiv and Sandy both have a lot in common - ambitious daughters of ailing tycoons. I enjoyed the CPAC, er, Future Freedom meeting and hope there’ll be a lot more about the Roys and national politics as we get closer to Election Day. Was it just me, or was there something of a homoerotic vibe to the scenes with Roman and Mencken, at the bar and then in the bathroom? And why would Logan decide to throw his weight behind Mencken after the candidate had, within earshot, said ATN was a failure and that Logan’s time had passed? And did anyone else notice that the guy who played the incumbent Vice President also played the Vice President on _House of Cards_? Why was Greg hoisted on the crowd’s shoulders at the convention? Was it when word got out that he’d be suing Greenpeace? I’d like to have seen more of the legal stuff, including Kendall’s meeting with (and poor performance in front of) the DOJ lawyers. The Adrien Brody character was intriguing - kept me guessing as to what his agenda was, and whether he was purposefully messing with Logan and Kendall. Kendall’s birthday party was all kinds of poor-little-rich-boy pathetic. I actually felt a little sorry for Connor when his ex-callgirl girlfriend kept him dangling about his marriage proposal. Logan turns from a sweet grandpa reading to his grandson to a brusque, dismissive tycoon in a heartbeat, and then, when he meets privately at the villa with Kendall, uses his grandson as a taster…_yikes_. Kendall took umbrage at the suggestion that he might try to poison his dad, but he had himself earlier warned his siblings that the donuts Logan sent might be toxic. I was struck by the contrast between this show, which is all about greed, cruelty, paranoia, lies and selfishness, and _Ted Lasso_, which celebrates generosity, kindness, open-heartedness, honesty and teamwork. Both very good shows, but just about diametrically opposed in their vibes. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/168 "2022-01-10T05:00:41Z")
Just binged all three seasons, I enjoyed it a lot. So watchable. And I have to give a shout out to the acting. So many absolutely hateable douchebags, but such distinct and complete characters. Logan and Tom and Roman are all so totally awful, but in such distinct and fully-drawn-in ways. That said, I do think the show rattles along so fast and has such watchable and hateable characters that it’s easy to miss things that either don’t really make sense or are just dropped. For instance: -Greg’s name is presumably still on the log as being the person who signed out all the papers to be shredded. He was trying to record an incriminating discussion with Tom. Kendall hints at that with his threat to burn him, which Comfrey later reminds us of. But then… that goes nowhere? -Suddenly these GOP hopefuls come out of nowhere, and are super important for one episode, and Roman DEFINITELY has gay vibes with one of them, and then… poof? -Kendall quite sincerely seems to want to “get out”. But now at the end he has the perfect opportunity to but… doesn’t want to any more? -Whatever happened to Marcia? She was presented as this super-machiavellian schemer with her own agenda, and a bit plot point back in season 1 was her getting two votes in the family trust. Then that was just dropped. And so was, more or less, her character? Was she so outraged that Logan had had an affair with Holly Hunter that she wanted a divorce? That could not possibly have been his first affair, why was that one so important? Most bizarre, at least to me (someone who knows very little about how big businesses are actually structured) is how much or little seats on the board of directors of Waystar seem to matter. I thought that directors were elected by shareholders at the company meeting… and in fact, that was basically the entire point of owning stock to begin with. But way back in season 1 when Kendall’s first coup fails, Logan just instantly fires everyone who voted against him. Can he do that? But then later on, it’s a HUGE deal that Stewy and Sandy get four seats on the board. But that means they actually matter, and have influence, right? If not, why did they care so much? -But then all of a sudden at the end of season 3, Logan is just making this sell-the-company deal totally out of nowhere. Don’t Stewy-and-Sandy matter at all now? And aren’t some of Logan’s kids on the board? Definitely an excellent show, and I’m eager for season 4, but I’m curious if anyone can clarify some of that for me. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/169 "2022-01-10T07:55:25Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > -Greg’s name is presumably still on the log as being the person who signed out all the papers to be shredded. He was trying to record an incriminating discussion with Tom. Kendall hints at that with his threat to burn him, which Comfrey later reminds us of. But then… that goes nowhere? I think the explanation there is that Kendall is bad at everything and also doesn’t really know what he wants out of his attempted treason. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/170 "2022-01-10T15:54:46Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > -Suddenly these GOP hopefuls come out of nowhere, and are super important for one episode, and Roman DEFINITELY has gay vibes with one of them, and then… poof? I suspect Roman is gay, but won’t come out because he fears Logan’s wrath. He struggles to have sex with women (or physically cannot have sex with women), he’s had some gay vibes with a couple of guys, and wasn’t there an incident with the personal trainer (I don’t remember details, but I sorta remember something happened)? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/171 "2022-01-10T16:29:29Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Definitely an excellent show, and I’m eager for season 4, but I’m curious if anyone can clarify some of that for me. Thanks! I think everything on your list is inexplicable, and it’s why I can’t consider it an excellent show. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/172 "2022-01-10T16:30:02Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Why was Greg hoisted on the crowd’s shoulders at the convention? Was it when word got out that he’d be suing Greenpeace? Yep. The Future Freedom people most likely loath Greenpeace so they were happy Greg was suing them. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Kendall quite sincerely seems to want to “get out”. But now at the end he has the perfect opportunity to but… doesn’t want to any more? Being acquired doesn’t necessarily mean Kendall gets out. GoJo is just going to buy enough shares to get a majority of the company - and Mattson isn’t dealing with Kendall to buy his shares. Kendall probably remains a substantial shareholder of Waystar Royco without any power. Of course, when Kendall, Shiv, and Roman get together, Kendall is thinking, that this time maybe he can be CEO and therefore doesn’t want to get out. > [@MaxTheVool](#): > > But then all of a sudden at the end of season 3, Logan is just making this sell-the-company deal totally out of nowhere. Don’t Stewy-and-Sandy matter at all now? And aren’t some of Logan’s kids on the board? If I had to guess, I think Logan is counting on some of the smaller shareholders selling parts (if not all) of their shares. Especially if GoJo is offering enough, while Waystar’s share price continue to fall. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/173 "2022-01-10T18:12:17Z")
Thanks, **ISiddiqui**. Some other thoughts: Loved the scene with Logan trying to get Greg to sign the document, accept a WaystarRoyco lawyer and “join the team.” Logan went from kindly solicitude to sneering contempt in record time. The uberconservative Mencken’s offhanded references to Franco and “H.” (Hitler) were absolutely chilling. This is a guy who should get nowhere _near_ the Oval Office. Kendall’s unconvincing hipster persona and “fake it 'til you make it” bravado were just pathetic, time and again, all season long. I had to admire the beautiful Tuscan setting in the last few episodes. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if ATN pushing the Raisin out bites them in the ass, re: the DOJ investigation. Perhaps their fascist loses and the winner is more than fine with going after Waystar. > > I also wouldn’t be surprised if Logan dies or is incapacitated at the end of the season (the UTI thing seemed like a bit of foreshadowing), and then next season is the last one where the kids are in open war for the throne. As I posted upthread in May 2020: > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > …I hope the Bernie-esque senator, Shiv’s ex-boss, is actually elected President, or is named Secretary of Commerce or something in the new administration, so he can continue messing with the Roys. I hope the next season will have a lot more on the presidential campaign, with that eventual outcome. I could even see Shiv, in her alarm at Mencken’s candidacy, going to work fulltime as a consultant for whoever the Democratic nominee is. As to the corporate empire: I’d hate to see Brian Cox leave the show, but having his surviving children going after each other like scorpions in a bottle, freed from his not-so-benevolent oversight, could be wicked good fun. > [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > Wouldn’t that imply a coverup [of Kendall’s Chappaquiddick incident the night of Shiv’s wedding] orchestrated by Logan himself? I was wondering the same thing, that Logan has that ace in the hole to pull, if needed. I’m amazed Logan hasn’t made use of it yet. It’s terrific leverage (although maybe not so much now that Kendall has confessed to Shiv and Roman, although Logan probably doesn’t know that yet). > [@JohnT](#): > > Gonna make my stand here: > > Unless it purports itself to be an accurate depiction of life on _this_ Earth in the Years of our COVID, 2020-?, I am fine not seeing masks in contemporary fiction. Likewise. This is clearly an alternate universe, and the present day, give or take a year, without Covid and without either Trump or Biden in the White House. > [@Lantern2](#): > > …Still in the general background seems to be the idea that Waystar is doomed without the merger which is what I am skeptical about. Of course you could argue that Waystar is in a much weaker position than the real Fox Corp because of the assorted shenanigans of the previous seasons. The company’s financial health still seems to be, or ought to be, precarious. Remember Gerri revealing, to Kendall’s shock, its huge debt load? Remember how Logan was pursuing a deal with the (more liberal media) Pierce family because he needed lots more money? Sometimes it’s better and sometimes it’s worse due to the needs of the script. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It was hilarious when Logan called Kendall his oldest son. LOL - yes. Something similar happened on _Friends_ when Ross’s dad welcomed “my first grandson,” forgetting that he already had one. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > …As for Tom’s new alliance with the Greg-weiler, that seems ill-conceived on Tom’s part. Has there ever been any evidence that Greg is capable of an Attack Dog mode? He’s the most self-indulgent, unqualified wishy-washy player on the field… Yeah, Greg has already shown his unreliability time and time again. He botched the biggest and most important task Tom ever entrusted him, the destruction of the damning cruise-line secret files, and then was pretty clearly aligned with Kendall for awhile. Tom must have come across more slavish and reliable lackeys in his years with the company. If I were him, I wouldn’t trust Greg with _anything_. > [@rejemy](#): > > It was interesting watching Logan throw everything (his company, his kids) to the wind in his headlong rush to complete this ever-worsening deal. He went from “Gojo can fuck off!” to “We have to finish this deal tonight before I lose $5 billion in market cap”. I have a feeling that if, say, Shiv had been managing this deal and came to Logan and said “Oh, that tech company we wanted to acquire? They no longer want a merger of equals, now they just want to buy us out, oh and also you’d be out as CEO.” he would have laughed and her face and told her to get real and fuck off, even if she presented the EXACT DEAL he himself was in the midst of crafting. Yes, definitely. > [@jsc1953](#): > > …Best line was Tom warning Greg not to include Roman in the Luxembourg royal succession, because he’d invade France. Ha! Maybe the best line of the season. > [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > …So much salacious stuff happened in this episode that Shiv’s and Roman’s apoplexy over the prospects of a new sibling has been largely overlooked. I thought their panic was hilarious. Yes - all their nervous chatter about their dad’s rejuvenated jizz was both horrible and very funny. > [@SanVito](#): > > > [@Smid](#): > > > > Darkest moment indeed was Roman dismissing the waiters death as been an explanation as to why it was hard to get a drink at Shiv’s wedding. > > I didn’t read it as that. I felt it was Roman clumsily trying to make his brother feel a bit better, in classic super awkward Roman fashion - honestly, I can imagine saying something like that to my brother (who hasn’t been involved in any deaths, for the record). There’s jokes you make in family that you wouldn’t say to anyone else. Agreed. That’s how I read it, and it was an oddly touching scene, too. Kendall said he tried to save the waiter once the car went in the water. Did he? I thought he just swam ashore and sat there, in shock. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/174 "2022-01-10T18:24:54Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Tom must have come across more slavish and reliable lackeys in his years with the company. If I were him, I wouldn’t trust Greg with _anything_ . OTOH, Tom may be recruiting Greg as a fall guy. That could get interesting, too. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/175 "2022-01-15T04:35:59Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Kendall said he tried to save the waiter once the car went in the water. Did he? I thought he just swam ashore and sat there, in shock. My memory is that he tried a reasonable amount, although I don’t remember if that was just “tugging some underwater” vs “surfacing and then going back down and trying again”. Potentially interesting question: how would you rank the main characters for evilness. Like, which of them is furthest from getting into heaven? It’s tricky, because I think Roman and Tom are the two most small-scale-assholes of them. They’re the ones who it would be least pleasant to work for, or basically interact with in any way if you weren’t one of the very few people they had to respect. But Logan (assuming he’s basically Rupert Murdoch) has done FAR more damage to the world overall. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/176 "2022-01-15T17:50:57Z")
That’s true. All of the major characters are awful in one way or another, but Kendall’s ex-wife and current girlfriend (assuming the latter isn’t just with him for his money) seem to be decent people. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/177 "2022-01-15T18:45:47Z")
I think Logan has got to be the most evil because he is the smartest. And the savviest and most connected. I think Roman and Tom are the ones trying to most emulate Logan. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/178 "2022-01-16T04:47:34Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I think Logan has got to be the most evil because he is the smartest. And the savviest and most connected. Of course then you get to the question of what “evil” is, and how to measure it? Purely by damage done? Because Logan has done more damage largely because he has more power to do damage, not because he is more malevelont/malicious/unethical. But… this thread is probably not the right place for a long digression into the philosophy of ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/179 "2022-01-16T18:57:47Z")
A short- or medium-length digression is always welcome, though! ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2022, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428/180 "2022-01-17T10:14:55Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > But Logan (assuming he’s basically Rupert Murdoch) has done FAR more damage to the world overall. This isn’t even a contest. Logan is horrific - and should squarely take the blame for the faults of his children - alongside his awful, emotionally absent ex wife (Scary Poppins). He’s a monster to them. Tom is interesting - clearly a scheming bastard, but he’s often shown his vulnerable side where Shiv is concerned. Logan, not so much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/succession-on-hbo/815428.md?page=10)