# Suck it! Boy Scouts of America and the Mormon Church! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207 "2010-05-03T21:17:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/1 "2010-05-03T21:17:11Z")
> [@](#): > > The Supreme Court on Monday decided to let stand a ruling saying the Boy Scouts cannot lease city-owned parkland in San Diego because the group is a religious organization. [http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5in7ajEEmUgegSv1RmGTwDepCXivwD9FFELG82](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5in7ajEEmUgegSv1RmGTwDepCXivwD9FFELG82) Damn Right! The Boy Scouts of America and their hateful Mormon overlords should be treated as full on religious organizations, because that is what they are. I am not here to disparage those dopers or in fact any individual Boy Scout, just the powers that be that try to pretend that they are a non-religious organization and the homophobic jerkoffs in the Mormon Church who have invaded the organization with their hate. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/2 "2010-05-03T21:28:17Z")
Where do the Mormons come in here? Is this a Mormon sponsored troop? ---
**Author:** ![Silophant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Silophant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silophant)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/3 "2010-05-03T21:31:26Z")
Umm, what? While the BSA does promote religion, in a general sense, it’s not actually Mormon in any sense of the word, unless this is a troop specifically chartered by the Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/4 "2010-05-03T21:35:25Z")
Add me to the list of those wondering about the Mormon connection. Do you have a link for that? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/5 "2010-05-03T21:36:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Boy Scouts of America and the Mormon Church Band name! ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/6 "2010-05-03T21:54:52Z")
The Mormon Chruch is incredibly influential in the Boy Scouts and its influence has grown considerably over time. It is the main reason the Boy Scouts have an anti-gay agenda. > [@](#): > > **Declaration of Religious Principle, Bylaws of Boy Scouts of America, art. IX, § 1, cl. 1** > > “The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. In the first part of the Scout Oath or Promise the member declares, ‘On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law.’ The recognition of God as the ruling and leading power in the universe and the grateful acknowledgment of His favors and blessings are necessary to the best type of citizenship and are wholesome precepts in the education of the growing members. No matter what the religious faith of the members may be, this fundamental need of good citizenship should be kept before them. The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.” > [@](#): > > Youth and Adult Volunteers > Boy Scouts of America believes that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God. Accordingly, youth members and adult volunteer leaders of Boy Scouts of America obligate themselves to do their duty to God and be reverent as embodied in the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. Leaders also must subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle. Because of its views concerning the duty to God, Boy Scouts of America believes that an atheist or agnostic is not an appropriate role model of the Scout Oath and Law for adolescent boys. Because of Scouting’s methods and beliefs, Scouting does not accept atheists and agnostics as members or adult volunteer leaders. > > Employment > With respect to positions limited to professional Scouters or, because of their close relationship to the mission of Scouting, positions limited to registered members of the Boy Scouts of America, acceptance of the Declaration of Religious Principle, the Scout Oath, and the Scout Law is required. Accordingly, in the exercise of their constitutional right to bring the values of Scouting to youth members, the Boy Scouts of America will not employ atheists, agnostics, known or avowed homosexuals, or others as professional Scouters or in other capacities in which such employment would tend to interfere with the mission of reinforcing the values of the Scout Oath and the Scout Law in young people. [http://www.bsalegal.org/duty-to-god-cases-224.asp](http://www.bsalegal.org/duty-to-god-cases-224.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Cumberdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Cumberdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumberdale)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/7 "2010-05-03T21:56:57Z")
While the Mormons don’t officially own or run the Boy Scouts, they did over a time get members of the church into high positions and now essentially control it. There was a good article on this a while ago. I’ll see if I can find it then post it unless someone beats me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/8 "2010-05-03T21:56:58Z")
I don’t get this court. They just overturned a ruling against [displaying a large cross on federal land](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/28/supreme-court-says-war-me_n_555919.html), then they say a religious organization can’t lease federal property? ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/9 "2010-05-03T22:08:57Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > The Mormon Chruch is incredibly influential in the Boy Scouts and its influence has grown considerably over time. It is the main reason the Boy Scouts have an anti-gay agenda. It couldn’t have anything to do with the numerous other religions with anti-gay views? I’m sorry while the Mormon church does hold anti-gay views and does have influence in the BSA they are not the only religion that does. It is unfair to single them out as if they are the sole instigators. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/10 "2010-05-03T23:13:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t get this court. They just overturned a ruling against [displaying a large cross on federal land](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/28/supreme-court-says-war-me_n_555919.html), then they say a religious organization can’t lease federal property? Some key differences, as noted in your link: 1. The land had been transferred to a private organization, so it’s inaccurate to call this “federal land”. 2. The SCOTUS sent this back to the lower court for reconsideration. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/11 "2010-05-03T23:18:40Z")
One other thing here… The court didn’t actually rule on this case. They refused to hear the appeal. It’s not clear to me that this reflects the view of all the justices-- aren’t appeals sometimes denied based on a subset of the 9 justices? Not sure what happened in this case. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/12 "2010-05-03T23:32:39Z")
I’m very, very happy to hear about this. I, for one, thought it was common knowledge that the Mormon church controlled the Boy Scouts. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/13 "2010-05-03T23:37:49Z")
It takes 4 justices to agree to hear an appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/14 "2010-05-03T23:40:04Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I, for one, thought it was common knowledge that the Mormon church controlled the Boy Scouts. Sorry, they like girls, not boys. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/15 "2010-05-03T23:43:13Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Sorry, they like girls, not boys. Funnily enough, I don’t believe the Girl Scouts operate as a religious organization as the Boy Scouts do. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/16 "2010-05-03T23:58:59Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Funnily enough, I don’t believe the Girl Scouts operate as a religious organization as the Boy Scouts do. Not nearly. In several ways the Girls Scouts are a far more respectable organization than the Boy Scouts, even if they have been depreciated over time to a point which might be beyond salvation. The GSA does not require its members to swear an oath to God or to be religious. This isn’t to say that an individual troop run by a holy roller might not exert peer pressure on a member which could be hard to prove. Nonetheless, the GSA deserves support much more than the BSA. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/17 "2010-05-04T00:18:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > One other thing here… > > The court didn’t actually rule on this case. They refused to hear the appeal. It’s not clear to me that this reflects the view of all the justices-- aren’t appeals sometimes denied based on a subset of the 9 justices? Not sure what happened in this case. A denial of cert doesn’t really mean much. The Court might think the lower court is correct. Or they might think the case is wrongly decided, but they’ve got more important shit to do. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/18 "2010-05-04T00:21:55Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Not nearly. In several ways the Girls Scouts are a far more respectable organization than the Boy Scouts, even if they have been depreciated over time to a point which might be beyond salvation. The GSA does not require its members to swear an oath to God or to be religious. This isn’t to say that an individual troop run by a holy roller might not exert peer pressure on a member which could be hard to prove. > > Nonetheless, the GSA deserves support much more than the BSA. If the Boy Scouts took a page out of the Girls’ book I’d be willing to support them. Good going for them. The current state of the Boy Scouts makes me sick, though. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/19 "2010-05-04T00:34:10Z")
When I was a kid, the local boy scout troops were run by the Catholic church. Given Catholic priests’ rep with young boys, I suppose the Morons would be an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/20 "2010-05-04T01:12:53Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Not nearly. In several ways the Girls Scouts are a far more respectable organization than the Boy Scouts, even if they have been depreciated over time to a point which might be beyond salvation. The GSA does not require its members to swear an oath to God or to be religious. This isn’t to say that an individual troop run by a holy roller might not exert peer pressure on a member which could be hard to prove. > > Nonetheless, the GSA deserves support much more than the BSA. My Girl Scouts just left. We don’t usually bother, but we had two girls thinking of joining, so I actually had the girls do the pledge and the law. I explained to the girls that they could choose to say God (as written in the pledge) or they could say something else (Spirit, World, whatever they want). I have five girls, only one of them is a Believer and says God. Three are Unitarians on some point in the atheist/agnostic spectrum. The other I’m not sure of, but she doesn’t usually say God either. My Service Unit has a lot of its volunteer membership coming from a Catholic School. Our Girl Scout representative has reminded them several times in meetings that not everyone is Christian, or even a believer (I think she caught on to me not saying God when I say the pledge - which we open leader meetings with). Boy Scouts gets a lot of their funding from the Mormons (for whom the Boy Scouts is a primary boy’s youth group) and the Catholic Church. Many United Ways have stopped funding them because of discriminatory policies. As a Girl Scout leader its a pain in the butt - we can’t meet at school because school can’t host discriminatory organizations - and rather than fight the battle - closed being a host location to all non-school based clubs. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207.md?page=2)