# Suck it! Boy Scouts of America and the Mormon Church! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207 "2010-05-03T21:17:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/121 "2010-05-19T14:54:28Z")
Ceremonial deism doesn’t matter so long as the ceremonial deity is one that no one believes in. If we all prayed to Santa Claus, I’m sure no one would be bothered. However, when the “ceremonial” deity is most decidedly not ceremonial for at least some of the people being required to mention it (and especially for the sponsoring organization), that’s where things get sticky. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/122 "2010-05-19T15:44:18Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Ceremonial deism doesn’t matter so long as the ceremonial deity is one that no one believes in. If we all prayed to Santa Claus, I’m sure no one would be bothered. However, when the “ceremonial” deity is most decidedly not ceremonial for at least some of the people being required to mention it (and especially for the sponsoring organization), that’s where things get sticky. I move to replace the motto on all coinage with “In Claus We Trust.” We could really do with taking ourselves less seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/123 "2010-05-19T15:45:03Z")
For all the dumb shit I’ve heard from people associated with Boy Scouts of America, this (from the OP’s link) was definitely news to me: > [@](#): > > Accordingly, in the exercise of their constitutional right to bring the values of Scouting to youth members, the Boy Scouts of America will not employ **atheists** , **agnostics** , known or avowed homosexuals, or others as professional Scouters or in other capacities in which such employment would tend to interfere with the mission of reinforcing the values of the Scout Oath and the Scout Law in young people. I’m going to have to work very hard at not punching the next scout leader who brings his troop to my house to ask for money. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/124 "2010-05-19T15:54:45Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > There are assholes at the ACLU and its ilk who want only to destroy No. Reform. > [@](#): > > They don’t create another youth organization to fill the gap, they just move onto the next target. The organization has the option of reforming, you know. The Scouts can perform their purpose just as well, or even better, by dropping the hatred you seem to believe is inextricably inherent in it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/125 "2010-05-19T16:32:21Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > By no stretch of the imagination is 16.5% a controlling amount. It is if nobody else has more than a 5% share. Consider the example of the Texas Board of [del]Indoctrination[/del] Education and textbooks. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/126 "2010-05-19T18:35:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > For all the dumb shit I’ve heard from people associated with Boy Scouts of America, this (from the OP’s link) was definitely news to me: > > I’m going to have to work very hard at not punching the next scout leader who brings his troop to my house to ask for money. Please don’t assume that all Scout Leaders agree or support this stuff (as I have tried to explain here). We are, for the most part, a reflection of the society we live in. I put on a dorky uniform to help kids. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/127 "2010-05-19T18:36:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No. Reform. > > The organization has the option of reforming, you know. The Scouts can perform their purpose just as well, or even better, by dropping the hatred you seem to believe is inextricably inherent in it. The hatred is a reflection of our society - so getting it out of the Scouts is going to be at least as difficult as getting it out of American society. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/128 "2010-05-19T18:39:45Z")
So you propose to start by denouncing those who even try. Wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/129 "2010-05-19T18:48:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So you propose to start by denouncing those who even try. Wonderful. You know - it is a short thread. You might want to re-read ALL of my posts. I have been pretty clear that I disagree with the bigotry, that I try to make changes from the inside, and that I even agreed that the lawsuits have merit. I simply tried to point out one real-world result so far of most of the legal actions - fewer opportunities for young men (and in some cases young women in Venturing, Varsity and Explorer units). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/130 "2010-05-19T18:54:20Z")
But you had to blast the ACLU for “wanting to destroy things”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/131 "2010-05-19T19:05:43Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But you had to blast the ACLU for “wanting to destroy things”. :rolleyes: Because they do. It is their type of collateral damage. A (not THE, but A) result of their actions is to reduce opportunities for kids. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/132 "2010-05-19T19:10:23Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Because they do. It is their type of collateral damage. A (not THE, but A) result of their actions is to reduce opportunities for kids. Which is not remotely the same as wanting. For being so against the BSA’s policies, you certainly are willing to argue disingenuously for them. You know what would _increase_ opportunities for the kids? Getting rid of the discriminatory practices in the BSA charter and embracing a more welcoming attitude. Until they do that, why should they be given special dispensation? Why is the BSA so important that it can’t be allowed to fail? Personally, I’d like to see it fail or at least reduced in power, such that a more inclusive club has a chance to rise to prominence so that more kids have more opportunities. Letting the status quo continue because you’re so shitscared for the kiiiiiddies is pathetic. You do them more harm than good by it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/133 "2010-05-19T19:15:40Z")
And, as I pointed out earlier, there seems to be at least one organization that already exists that targets similar opportunities for outdoor activities – Campfire USA – and it has the virtue of not discriminating along any lines, including gender. If we stopped mollycoddling the Boy Scouts’ bigotry, then an organization like Campfire USA could easily step up to the plate and offer the opportunities that we consider valuable. ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/134 "2010-05-19T19:34:52Z")
And as Rita Moreno used to say, “Campfire is for everyone!” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/135 "2010-05-19T20:01:13Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Because they do. It is their type of collateral damage. A (not THE, but A) result of their actions is to reduce opportunities for kids. Already answered, but not comprehended. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/136 "2010-05-19T20:02:54Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Personally, I’d like to see it fail … The real truth comes out. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/137 "2010-05-19T20:04:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Already answered, but not comprehended. Same back at you. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/138 "2010-05-19T20:05:18Z")
> [@Oni no Maggie](#): > > Not anymore. ☹ Not an _official_ one, anyway. (Oh, those summer camps…) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/139 "2010-05-19T20:11:31Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > The real truth comes out. That’s a really first rate use of deceptive editing to alter the intent of a quote. Very well done. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207/140 "2010-05-19T20:12:33Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Same back at you. Understood just fine. I understand your reflexive hatred for the damn liberal ACLU and your reflexive defensiveness for the Scouts and every single damn policy they follow, including the hateful ones, is more powerful by far than reason itself. I do hope you’re not passing it on to the boys, to make yet another generation of gay-haters, but that’s only hope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-it-boy-scouts-of-america-and-the-mormon-church/538207.md?page=8)