# Suck My Outraged Ass, Red Light Runner! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013 "2004-02-01T05:56:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/41 "2004-02-03T16:57:17Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > [S]uspending a license isn’t really a revocation of driving privledges and isn’t all that effective. _Anyone_ can drive if they have access to a vehicle, a license just makes it legal to drive the vehicle. A _severe_ punishment would be to take away the license and any chance of operating a motor vehicle. I found a [cite](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/imp22.shtml) if anyone’s curious. > [@](#): > > Car impoundment ordinance may have flaws, city admits > > Thursday, July 22, 1999 > > By HEATH FOSTER > SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER > Seattle City Council members and City Attorney Mark Sidran acknowledged yesterday that there are some flaws in a new program impounding the cars of suspended-license drivers, and took steps to correct them. > > “There are problems,” Sidran said. “But the whole purpose of the (impound ordinance) was to get suspended-license drivers licensed or off the roads … and we are doing that.” > > Since the beginning of the year, Seattle has impounded more than 2,600 cars driven by people with suspended driver’s licenses. Nearly all have lost their driving privileges because they failed to pay or appear in court for traffic infractions, often for driving without insurance. > > The P-I examined nearly 2,000 of those cases and found that in 70 percent of the time, the cars being impounded were not being driven by their registered owners. > > Sidran and police and court officials did present new data, which they said demonstrate that Operation Impound is working. Driving-with-suspended-license cases have dropped 17 percent in the first six months of this year compared to last year. And jail bookings related to suspended license cases are down by 13 percent. > > But Daugaard said the reductions more likely resulted from the fact that so many more people are being put on time payments so they can regain their licenses. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/42 "2004-02-03T17:14:57Z")
Here’s something a bit more recent. > [@](#): > > [Detroit News](http://www.detnews.com/2003/specialreport/0303/31/a09-122322.htm) > Sunday, March 30, 2003 > > Bad motorists lose licenses, but stay on roads > > Those with suspended privileges kill 130 a year in Michigan > > By Brad Heath / The Detroit News > > Michigan’s most-used tool for keeping drivers with dangerous records off the road – suspending their license – doesn’t work. > > They continue to drive, and to imperil those around them, studies show. Crashes involving drivers with suspended or revoked licenses kill an average of 130 people a year in Michigan, a Detroit News analysis of federal records found. > > “It’s no stretch to say there are literally thousands of people on Michigan’s roads who have a suspended license,” Dearborn Police Cpl. Gordon McIntosh said. > > In any given year, roughly 300,000 of Michigan’s 7 million drivers have their driving privileges suspended for offenses as minor as an unpaid ticket. Typically, that means they’ve been sent a letter saying it’s unlawful to drive, although they still possess their license. > > A recent report by the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute said police caught nearly a third of Michigan’s suspended drivers back on the road and estimated that the actual number who continue driving is closer to 70 percent. Other studies have reached similar conclusions. > > Experts say suspensions don’t work because they don’t actually take away people’s ability to drive. And taking people’s licenses away can leave them with few alternatives for getting to their jobs, the grocery store or even to court – especially in areas like Metro Detroit, where there are few mass transit alternatives. > > The penalty for driving with a suspended license can include jail. But because it’s a misdemeanor, more often the penalty is just another ticket, another fine and another suspension – so there’s little incentive to stop driving, experts say. > > “If you’ve got someone who’s suspended, if they have a set of keys and a car, in all likelihood, they’re going to drive,” said Richard Miller, a former state trooper who manages traffic safety programs for AAA Michigan. > > And unlike speeders or drunk drivers, there are no telltale signs to alert police that someone who drives past them has a suspended license. > > “You can drive for decades without a license, but if you don’t run a stop sign, we’ll never know,” said Stephanie Faul, a spokeswoman for the AAA Foundation for Traffic Safety. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/43 "2004-02-03T21:26:11Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > So, you’re going with the “punish everyone for the good of a few” mentality? Can you not see how seriously flawed that logic is? You’re pretty much saying that something entirely out of someones control should still result in them being punished. Where is the logic in that? So, if a bird flys into my windsheild and I accidentally run a red, I should lose my license and thus my job and have to quit school _to teach others that do not and will never know me a lesson?_ How is that fair? How is that just? And please save me the “life isn’t fair” lecture, this is beyond that. There’s no sense to this. Well, i don’t think anyone ever suggested that you should be punished for such a completely unforeseeable event as a bird flying into your windshield. But some people also seem to be trying to escape taking responsibility for a lapse in attention or concentration while driving, and suggesting that taking a person’s licence away is not a reasonable punishment. Sure, such a lapse may be completely unintended, and it may not mean that someone is an asshole, but it’s hardly “entirely outside of someone’s control,” as the case of the bird is. If someone can’t concentrate _all the time_ while driving, then that someone simply shouldn’t be on the road. The stakes are too high. As i said before, driving is not a right enshrined in the constitution, and if you can’t keep your head in the game while behind the wheel, then take a bus. All these excuses like “it was two sets of traffic lights close together” don’t cut the mustard, as far as i’m concerned. Sure, the crash in the OP was an accident; no-one’s suggesting that the guy plowed through the red light intentionally, in the hope of hitting someone. But the fact remains that if you miss the red light, even if only due to a “momentary lapse of concentration,” you are a danger to other road users. Asshole? Maybe not. Dangerous? Yes, IMO. What **Q.E.D.** is suggesting (if i’m not mistaken), and what i’m saying, is that if such inattentive driving habits were punished more harshly, maybe people would learn to pay more attention. Unfortunately, as **Jeff Olsen** ’s posts show, suspending someone’s licence may not be a very efficacious remedy for bad driving. I guess the option then is to really ramp up the penalties for driving while suspended. Make it a felony or something. After all, if your licence is suspended or revoked, it’s not like you don’t know about it. Driving under such circumstances is not simply ignoring the law, it’s contravening a specific directive, and should be punished accordingly. I know people need their cars for work and such, but if the car is that important to them, they should learn how to use it responsibly. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/44 "2004-02-03T21:30:23Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > You’re sort of twising my words here. What I _am_ saying is that if a _few_ honestly distracted red light runners have to suffer a little to stop all the _many_ fucktards who can’t be bothered to pay attention when they’re driving, I wouldn’t have a problem with that. I don’t see how I’m twisting your words at all. You said that if a few honestly distracted red light runners have to suffer a little (which is entirely subjective, as I’ve demonstrated by what would happen to me if I were to lose my license, I’m actually a bit offended that you would classify my losing my job and being unable to continue my education as “suffering a little”, but that’s beside the point) then too bad. That would mean that if an honestly distracted person ran a red they’d get their license revoked, yes? That _is_ what you said, right? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/45 "2004-02-03T21:42:28Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If someone can’t concentrate _all the time_ while driving, then that someone simply shouldn’t be on the road. The stakes are too high. As i said before, driving is not a right enshrined in the constitution, and if you can’t keep your head in the game while behind the wheel, then take a bus. All these excuses like “it was two sets of traffic lights close together” don’t cut the mustard, as far as i’m concerned. Here’s the crux of the matter. As a society, we’ve decided that someone who can’t pay attention 100% of the time CAN still be on the road: it’s only when someone has demonstrated a _pattern_ of not paying attention that their license is suspended. As a society, we’ve decided that the convenience of a mobile society outweighs the safety of removing someone from the road for a momentary lapse of attention. But you don’t like that. What can I say? It’s entirely a value judgment, and I’m glad your values aren’t the ones in control. I’d be interested in some research showing what percentage of drivers CAN “concentrate **all the time**.” My guess is that the number of drivers who do so is vanishingly small, that most drivers who use their vehicles more than once a week get distracted in their vehicles at least once a month – whether it’s by something on the radio, by a bumpersticker that they can’t quite read, by a flashy billboard, by an attractive or distinctive person in the next car, by worriesa bout their taxes, by the coffee they’re drinking, by the semi that’s tailgating them or whatever. Again, we as a society have decided not to remove folks’ driving privileges for the rare distraction, even when the rare distraction causes an accident. Only when the distraction becomes a pattern do we punish it harshly. To do otherwise would clear the roads. Though that might be a good thing, it’s hardly practical, given our current social structures. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/46 "2004-02-03T21:56:04Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Well, i don’t think anyone ever suggested that you should be punished for such a completely unforeseeable event as a bird flying into your windshield. Actually, that’s exactly what **Q.E.D.** said. Read his post again. He said that if it would help to make drivers pay attention more, then a few honest people that ran reds due to circumstances beyond their control should have to suffer. For the greater good, I’m sure. > [@](#): > > But some people also seem to be trying to escape taking responsibility for a lapse in attention or concentration while driving, and suggesting that taking a person’s licence away is not a reasonable punishment. Sure, such a lapse may be completely unintended, and it may not mean that someone is an asshole, but it’s hardly “entirely outside of someone’s control,” as the case of the bird is. No, it’s not. Doesn’t change the fact that it _happens_. It happens to all of us, every day. Sometimes it’s so quick you don’t even notice it. And in many cases, it IS beyond someones control. As my examples of someone cutting in front of you, or a number of things that happen quite frequently, show. If someone can come in here and claim they are completely undistracted 110% of the time, that they are COMPLETELY engrossed in the act of driving, all the time they drive, then I’d appreciate it. Never think about other things, never look at their kids in the rearview and tell them to quit screaming, none of that. 110% FOCUSED. Posters like **Darwin’s Finch** who don’t even freaking _drive_ don’t count. I commute close to 200 miles, round trip, every day. During those 200 miles, there are going to be times when my attention is diverted, _if only for a second_. I’m being realistic here, something I think a lot of you _aren’t_ being. It’s easy to climb up on that soapbox (especially those who don’t even drive) and give the 'ol “if you’re distracted _even for a millisecond_ you’re a DANGER TO THE ROADS and you SHOULDN’T BE DRIVING!!” speech. It’s a little harder to actually practice it. > [@](#): > > If someone can’t concentrate _all the time_ while driving, then that someone simply shouldn’t be on the road. The stakes are too high. As i said before, driving is not a right enshrined in the constitution, and if you can’t keep your head in the game while behind the wheel, then take a bus. All these excuses like “it was two sets of traffic lights close together” don’t cut the mustard, as far as i’m concerned. I think you’re confusing a one to two second distraction with talking on the cell phone/eating a cheeseburger/watching the scenery wiz by. They really are two seperate things. See my above comments. > [@](#): > > Sure, the crash in the OP was an accident; no-one’s suggesting that the guy plowed through the red light intentionally, in the hope of hitting someone. But the fact remains that if you miss the red light, even if only due to a “momentary lapse of concentration,” you are a danger to other road users. Asshole? Maybe not. Dangerous? Yes, IMO. What **Q.E.D.** is suggesting (if i’m not mistaken), and what i’m saying, is that if such inattentive driving habits were punished more harshly, maybe people would learn to pay more attention. And _I’m_ saying that no matter _how_ hard you concentrate, there _will_ be moments where you’ll be distracted. We’re human. Unless we’re cyborgs that are programmed to be 100% in the moment at all times no matter WHAT outside influences intervene, it _WILL_ happen. It’s not a matter of learning how to pay more attention. If we’re willing to punish those who are distracted due to things completely out of their control (as **Q.E.D.** is suggesting), then we’re not teaching anyone, anything. Well, actually, we’re probably teaching them to pray nothing out of the ordinary happens that could in turn ruin their lives (if they are completely dependent on driving), but that wasn’t your goal now, was it? Yeah, there are people that really are dangerous. That constantly talk on their cell phones/eat cheeseburgers/watch the scenery wiz by. And they shouldn’t be on the roads. But lumping those of us who only succumb to things _every_ human does in with them isn’t going to _help_ anybody. People that continually do not pay attention get tickets (with any luck). Get too many tickets, your license gets yanked, with good cause. Going around yanking _everyones_ license isn’t going to solve anything. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, as **Jeff Olsen** ’s posts show, suspending someone’s licence may not be a very efficacious remedy for bad driving. I guess the option then is to really ramp up the penalties for driving while suspended. Make it a felony or something. After all, if your licence is suspended or revoked, it’s not like you don’t know about it. Driving under such circumstances is not simply ignoring the law, it’s contravening a specific directive, and should be punished accordingly. > > I know people need their cars for work and such, but if the car is that important to them, they should learn how to use it responsibly. IF those licenses are suspended for _good reason_. IMHO, running a red is not enough reason to get your license revoked, for the reasons I’ve stated above. You can be the most responsible driver in the world but sometimes, shit happens. You get distracted. Again, we’re _human_. If you still disagree, then we’re going to have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/47 "2004-02-03T22:24:57Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > That would mean that if an honestly distracted person ran a red they’d get their license revoked, yes? > > That _is_ what you said, right? Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Here’s the problem with your little idealistic society: how is a driver who gets ticketed for running a red light going to prove in a court of law that he was distracted by something beyond his control, rather that one who wasn’t paying attention because he was yakking it up on a cellphone or putting on makeup? This isn’t unprecedented. What about the person who gets ticketed because of a light that _just_ went out before the officer saw it. How can that driver prove the circumstances were beyond his control? He cannot. I find it very hard to believe that losing your license for some months would be such a hardship as to ruin your life. I have lost mine (yes, my own stupidity in my younger years), but I could adapt. It wasn’t fun, but it wasn’t impossible either. It’s _supposed_ to be difficult for you. That’s what a punishment _is_. How much good can a painless lesson do? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/48 "2004-02-03T22:26:10Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > If you still disagree, then we’re going to have to agree to disagree. Agreed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/49 "2004-02-04T00:02:32Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Yes, that’s what I’m saying. Here’s the problem with your little idealistic society: how is a driver who gets ticketed for running a red light going to prove in a court of law that he was distracted by something beyond his control, rather that one who wasn’t paying attention because he was yakking it up on a cellphone or putting on makeup? This isn’t unprecedented. What about the person who gets ticketed because of a light that _just_ went out before the officer saw it. How can that driver prove the circumstances were beyond his control? He cannot. > > I find it very hard to believe that losing your license for some months would be such a hardship as to ruin your life. I have lost mine (yes, my own stupidity in my younger years), but I could adapt. It wasn’t fun, but it wasn’t impossible either. It’s _supposed_ to be difficult for you. That’s what a punishment _is_. How much good can a painless lesson do? Yeah, that would be why I think revoking a license for running a red would be overkill. I’m not arguing the “act of god” reasoning for running it, I’m arguing the fact that it’s an overly harsh punishment, using the fact that “acts of god” _can_ cause it, thus making it REALLY harsh. And yeah, considering I’d lose my job and would have to quit law school if I couldn’t drive, it would pretty much ruin my life. Agreeing to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/50 "2004-02-04T02:59:48Z")
KCSuze, I’m glad you’re Dad is okay. My wife got hit (in my car) the same way. Happily it was a Saturn, designed for just this event, and it gave up its life to protect hers. When I arrived at the accident site, I found the idiot and his two friends (who were not all that young) sitting on the curb laughing. They were lucky there were cops around or else I would have kicked their fool heads in. I’m sure some red light running is from distraction, but more is from people feeling that they are just so important it doesn’t matter. In my town there were several intersections where 2 - 3 cars typically ran the red light every time I was there. Then they put in red light cameras at the intersections with the most accidents. The accident rate plummeted. Since if you’re distracted you are not going to care about the camera, I can only conclude that most of the red light runners did it deliberately, and stopped when it got expensive. OI hardly see anyone run lights at these intersections anymore. When I do, and see the flash of the strobe capturing the clown’s license and picture, I at least have the pleasure of knowing that he’s going to get an expensive letter soon. ---
**Author:** ![NeNee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f17d59/32.png) [@NeNee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeNee)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/51 "2004-02-04T06:39:22Z")
We’re talking about running red lights, **Metacom**. I can understand a whole lot more being rear ended by someone than being hit at an intersection where there was a red light. There is absolutely no excuse when you are approaching an intersection why you shouldn’t be giving you full 100 percent undivided attention to what’s happening (Or any other time, but things do happen…) I wouldn’t be as mad either if I were being protected by a car. I was talking from the standpoint of a pedestrian. Did you bother to read through my entire post before knee jerking? Usually if you have a red light, the cross traffic has a green light, as does the pedestrian crossing the road. Do you only become a fuck-face when you _seriously_ injure somebody?? It’s all ok when no one was hurt, no harm no foul right? I say you’re a fuck-face no matter what if you go flying through a red light. And the more I think about this “I was distracted for a second” bullshit, the more shit I can smell. You’d have to be distracted for a whole lot longer than a second to realize Once you realize that you’re coasting through a red light, you slam on your breaks and honk your horn to alert everyone that something’s happened and they need to slow down or stop. Most of the time the people who are running red lights have done it in the past and will do it in the future. Most of the time. It’s like a drunk driver who got caught for the first time. If they were willing to get behind the wheel of the car that time, they’ve probably done it in the past–and would have kept doing it until they got caught and punished severely. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/52 "2004-02-04T12:48:40Z")
> [@NeNee](#): > > We’re talking about running red lights, **Metacom**. I can understand a whole lot more being rear ended by someone than being hit at an intersection where there was a red light. There is absolutely no excuse when you are approaching an intersection why you shouldn’t be giving you full 100 percent undivided attention to what’s happening (Or any other time, but things do happen…) Eh? Being distracted at anytime is bad, period. The whole point of being distracted is that you don’t know what’s going on around you–you don’t know there’s an intersection, or that Metacom is stopped waiting to make a turn. It doesn’t really make sense to say “It’s worse to be distracted in situation X”, because _the whole point of being distracted is that you don’t know what situation you’re in._ > [@](#): > > Did you bother to read through my entire post before knee jerking? I thought my response was clear and reasoned. I don’t enjoy discussions that immediately lapse into ad hominems and straw men (“No harm no foul?” I said no such thing), and if I see any more I won’t participate in this one. > [@](#): > > Usually if you have a red light, the cross traffic has a green light, as does the pedestrian crossing the road. Do you only become a fuck-face when you _seriously_ injure somebody?? It’s all ok when no one was hurt, no harm no foul right? Actually, I disagree with that. I think that intent is what matters most: if an otherwise good driver slips up, accidently runs a red light, and creams a pedestrian, I don’t think they should be punished (by anything other then their conscience) any more then if they ran the light without hurting anyone. ---
**Author:** ![NightRabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/53 "2004-02-04T14:21:14Z")
I don’t understand why people keep making lame-ass excuses for people who run red lights. I admit that there is distraction in driving. I constantly flip between four radio stations to find the best song- that’s certainly distracting. But you know what? This distraction might cause me to go 5 miles over the limit or something. But to NOT SEE A RED LIGHT (?) is more than a moment’s distraction- are the people who run them not aware of an intersection even approaching? That’s a HELL of a long time to be distracted. Or do they not SEE that the color of the light is obscured? The sun doesn’t just POP out in front of red lights, it’s there all the time! Guess what? The sun’s been in my eyes and I couldn’t see the color of the light. What do you do? YOU SLOW DOWN, GENIUS, you don’t STEP ON THE GAS! If you don’t understand the light configuration at an intersection, you SLOW DOWN and approach it cautiously, you don’t STEP ON THE GAS! It’s all about being a defensive driver- either you are or you aren’t. Either you know how to avoid accidents or you don’t. Yes, momentary distraction is one thing, but when an intersection surprises you then you have absolutely NO RIGHT to be operating a motor vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/54 "2004-02-04T15:09:57Z")
> [@NightRabbit](#): > > I don’t understand why people keep making lame-ass excuses for people who run red lights. I don’t see people making excuses so much as I see people discussing mitigating circumstances. No one is saying that it’s OK or excusable, people _are_ saying that it can happen to the best of us, and, when it does happen, the punishment shouldn’t be severe. Agree or disagree with that as you will, but I think saying that we’re excusing the behaviour is a mischarecterization of our argument (or my argument, at least). ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/55 "2004-02-04T16:20:13Z")
I never made excuses for running red lights either. I said it’s bad. I said you should get a ticket. I also said it shouldn’t result in you losing your license. That’s not _excusing_ it. Sheesh people, try arguing what I’m _actually_ saying, not the words that you’re putting into my fingers. For the LAST time, it’s NOT about making excuses. There IS no excuse for running reds. Like **Metacom** said, there are mitigating circumstances, that STILL DO NOT EXCUSE IT. All I am saying, and I feel confident in saying **Metacom** is saying as well, is that _REVOKING SOMEONES LICENSE FOR RUNNING A RED IS TOO HARSH A PUNISHMENT_. Revoking someones license depending on their individual circumstances, can be a SEVERE hardship, unequal to the nature of the crime. It’s not a difficult concept. If you are a habitual red light runner, then your tickets will stack up and you will eventually get your license revoked, with good cause. But getting it revoked as the result of running one red, is OVERLY HARSH. Good god. ---
**Author:** ![NeNee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f17d59/32.png) [@NeNee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NeNee)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/56 "2004-02-04T17:05:20Z")
You know what the police officer is going to say to the person he just caught wizzing through a red light? “What if there had been a child in that crosswalk?” “Duh, he-yuck, I was distracted so it would have been all right.” I can’t believe how nonchalant people are acting about this issue. Hopefully it will be one of your(general) children or someone whom you love dearly that gets creamed by a distracted driver next time. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/57 "2004-02-04T17:51:57Z")
> [@NeNee](#): > > Hopefully it will be one of your (general) children or someone whom you love dearly that gets creamed by a distracted driver next time. [continuing hijack] Hopefully, those who NEVER get distracted when they drive, never will be the cause of an accident. I can’t imagine how painful it would be to have to deal with something that I’d been hyper-vigilant against, but now perpetrated. You know, that old standard about “never saying never.” I think it would make one more upset than those who understand possible mitigating circumstances. But I, on the other hand, wouldn’t really know about that because I’ve been one of the ones to do something really foolish, like accidentally run a red light. It’s happened to me twice. Once, when I had just moved to a new location and didn’t realize that the road I took to my job had two traffic lights, one right behind the other. On my first morning commute, I diligently overlooked the first, sailing right through it, and went to stop at the second. Didn’t even have a clue until I heard the cars honking as I passed by. Thank God there was no wreck. The second was at least familiar surroundings and I had been already eased off the gas as I approached the light. But, like the doofus that I am, I somehow got my one foot tangled up into the shoestrings of my other foot and couldn’t step on the break fast enough to stop immediately. By the time I completely grasped my situation, I used both entwined feet to just stomp on it and came to rest about mid-way through the intersection. The good thing in that case was that there were absolutely no cars at all around anywhere. So, I can understand how crap happens and it isn’t always just distraction, selfish- or carelessness. Sometimes, people just mess up (for whatever reason), what with being human and all, and not infallible. And yes, to answer any future questions… I have been on the receiving end of an accident where someone else wasn’t at fault, as have many of my family members and loved ones. I certainly understand the anger and frustration, but at the same time, I figure “but for the grace of whatever higher power, go I.” That helps me to sleep somewhat better at night, knowing any of us can be on either end. [/ch] And not to forget the most important part here: **KCSuze** , so glad to hear your dad is improving. So sorry for your awful experience and I hope that anyone who has read this thread will be a little more cautious with their driving henceforth. Sending good thoughts y’all’s way. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/58 "2004-02-04T18:25:38Z")
> [@NeNee](#): > > Hopefully it will be one of your(general) children or someone whom you love dearly that gets creamed by a distracted driver next time. Hopefully you’ll realise that you’re dancing awfully close to the line of wishing death on someone, as prohibited per the sticky in this here forum. Throwing in “general” as some sort of attempted disclaimer doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/59 "2004-02-04T20:21:16Z")
> [@NeNee](#): > > You know what the police officer is going to say to the person he just caught wizzing through a red light? “What if there had been a child in that crosswalk?” > “Duh, he-yuck, I was distracted so it would have been all right.” > > I can’t believe how nonchalant people are acting about this issue. Hopefully it will be one of your(general) children or someone whom you love dearly that gets creamed by a distracted driver next time. Okay. Obviously you’re arguing from a 100% emotional position. I’m not going to engage anymore because I like to follow a general rule of not trying to argue with those who are coming from that position. They are typically so caught up in the emotional aspect, they refuse to see reason. And I’d appreciate you refraining from wishing death on my future children. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013/60 "2004-02-04T20:27:41Z")
Thanks for warning him, **Coldfire** , but I’m still gonna call him a contemptible fucking schmuck for the sentiment. **Nenee** , you’re a contemptible fucking schmuck. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suck-my-outraged-ass-red-light-runner/227013.md?page=4)