# Sudan militiamen systematically raping women in ethnic cleansing campaign **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 30, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912 "2004-06-30T17:40:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/1 "2004-06-30T17:40:16Z")
From the Washington Post: [**’We Want to Make a Light Baby’ - Arab Militiamen in Sudan Said to Use Rape as Weapon of Ethnic Cleansing**](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16001-2004Jun29.html) This is sick. Government-sponsored Arab militiamen are roaming the Sudan countryside raping African women in an effort to make lighter-skinned children. This article is just sick and heartbreaking. I wish there was more we could do about this. I just don’t understand what type of monsters these soldiers have to be to rape random women as part of their duties. How can someone do this? How is it even physically possible, to get “aroused” enough during such an act of violence to even do the deed? This is absolutely disgusting. Some excerpts: > [@](#): > > GENEINA, Sudan, June 29 – At first light on Sunday, three young women walked into a scrubby field just outside their refugee camp in West Darfur. They had gone out to collect straw for their family’s donkeys. They recalled thinking that the Arab militiamen who were attacking African tribes at night would still be asleep. But six men grabbed them, yelling Arabic slurs such as “zurga” and “abid,” meaning “black” and “slave.” Then the men raped them, beat them and left them on the ground, they said. "They grabbed my donkey and my straw and said, ‘Black girl, you are too dark. You are like a dog. We want to make a light baby,’ " said Sawela Suliman, 22, showing slashes from where a whip had struck her thighs as her father held up a police and health report with details of the attack. "They said, ‘You get out of this area and leave the child when it’s made.’ " > > The victims and others said the rapes seemed to be a systematic campaign to humiliate the women, their husbands and fathers, and to weaken tribal ethnic lines. In Sudan, as in many Arab cultures, a child’s ethnicity is attached to the ethnicity of the father. > > The New York-based organization Human Rights Watch said in a June 22 report that it investigated “the use of rape by both Janjaweed and Sudanese soldiers against women from the three African ethnic groups targeted in the ‘ethnic cleansing’ campaign in Darfur.” It added, “The rapes are often accompanied by dehumanizing epithets, stressing the ethnic nature of the joint government-Janjaweed campaign. The rapists use the terms ‘slaves’ and ‘black slaves’ to refer to the women, who are mostly from the Fur, Masalit and Zaghawa ethnic groups.” > > _[One rape victim describes the rape:]_ "They said, ‘Dog, you have sex with me,’ " she said. Adam, who was receiving medical treatment at the Abu Shouk camp, said through a female interpreter that she was raped 10 days ago and has been suffering from stomach cramps and bleeding. "They said, ‘The government gave me permission to rape you. This is not your land anymore, abid, go.’ " > > _[Another rape victim who is pregnant from the rape:]_ "The man said, ‘Give me your money, slave,’ " she said, starting to cry. “Then I must tell you very frankly, he raped me. He had a gun to my head. He called me dirty abid. He said I was very ugly because my skin is so dark. What will I do now?” > > _[Another victim:]_ “Very frankly, they selected us ladies and had what they wanted with us, like you would a wife. I am humiliated. Always they said, ‘You are nothing. You are abid. You are too black.’ It was disgusting.” > > _[And another:]_ “I am feeling so shy but I wanted to tell you, I was raped too that day. They left me without my clothing by the dry riverbed. I had to walk back naked. They said, ‘You slave. This is not your area. I will make an Arab baby who can have this land.’ I am hurting now so much, because no one will marry me if they find out.” ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/2 "2004-06-30T17:57:44Z")
Humans. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/3 "2004-06-30T18:03:49Z")
I’ve been keeping up with what’s going on there, fucking horrific. Too bad they don’t have any oil. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/4 "2004-06-30T18:06:12Z")
People are capable of some very evil things once they de-humanize in their minds another group of people. ---
**Author:** ![scule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@scule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scule)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/5 "2004-06-30T18:10:15Z")
I guess freeing people in Iraq :rolleyes: and arguing over trade issues is more important than real action (for all powerful democracies, I’m not just slamming the US). This is the sort of issue the UN was made for, yet nothing has been done and it’s been going on for 20 years or so. Seems to me that pretty much every human being alive should be ashamed to be a part of the same species as these dogs. I would love to see these guys beheaded instead of unarmed civilian contractors. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/6 "2004-06-30T18:20:57Z")
Do these tactics even work?! I’ve heard of the tactic of ethnic cleansing through the rape of the female population, but even if they managed to rape every woman in this ethnic cleansing campaign chances are there are still going to be a lot of offspring that take after their mother. Not only is it barbaric but it also seems pointless in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/7 "2004-06-30T18:49:21Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I’ve been keeping up with what’s going on there, fucking horrific. > > Too bad they don’t have any oil. Actually, they do have oil on the South. Then again, [it](http://splmtoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=379) [has´t](http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/oct1999/suda-o20.shtml) [done](http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/Sudan_Oil_Blood.html) [them](http://www.sudanupdate.org/REPORTS/Oil/oildisplacement.htm) [any](http://www.crisisweb.org/home/index.cfm?id=1615&i=1) [good.](http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engAFR540012000) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/8 "2004-06-30T18:56:30Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Actually, they do have oil on the South. > > Then again, [it](http://splmtoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=379) [has´t](http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/oct1999/suda-o20.shtml) [done](http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Africa/Sudan_Oil_Blood.html) [them](http://www.sudanupdate.org/REPORTS/Oil/oildisplacement.htm) [any](http://www.crisisweb.org/home/index.cfm?id=1615&i=1) [good.](http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engAFR540012000) Ah thanks. Hmmmm potential for 450,000 barrels a day? What are we waiting for? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/9 "2004-06-30T19:18:42Z")
The country’s way too [unstable,](http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/su.html) they’ve got civil wars, droughts, dissention, suspended constitutions, a history of executive-level coups…There’s no way they could defend themse…what \*are \* we waiting for? 😃 ahem…not to make light of the OP, of course. Fucking rapists. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/10 "2004-06-30T20:11:04Z")
Why don’t we provide the whole truth here. The Bush Administration is doing more than any administration in history to address the situation in Sudan, and is making progress there. > **[Why Sudan has become a Bush priority](https://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0630/p01s04-woaf.html)** > > Secretary of State Colin Powell arrived Tuesday in Khartoum. Now, whether it’s enough is a matter of fair debate. But saying we’re ignoring the problem isn’t accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Chimpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@Chimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/11 "2004-06-30T20:22:49Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Humans. :rolleyes: Oh og yes, this is how i feel so often when reading this sort of thing or coming across it (usually to a lesser extent) in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/12 "2004-06-30T21:44:21Z")
> [@scule](#): > > I guess freeing people in Iraq :rolleyes: and arguing over trade issues is more important than real action (for all powerful democracies, I’m not just slamming the US). This is the sort of issue the UN was made for, yet nothing has been done and it’s been going on for 20 years or so. Seems to me that pretty much every human being alive should be ashamed to be a part of the same species as these dogs. I would love to see these guys beheaded instead of unarmed civilian contractors. The UN can’t move into Sudan no matter how terrible its actions. It would displease too many Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/13 "2004-06-30T21:55:55Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Why don’t we provide the whole truth here. The Bush Administration is doing more than any administration in history to address the situation in Sudan, and is making progress there. > > [http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0630/p01s04-woaf.html](http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0630/p01s04-woaf.html) > > Now, whether it’s enough is a matter of fair debate. But saying we’re ignoring the problem isn’t accurate. Well to me, if we’re not _doing_ anything about what the article calls “world’s worst humanitarian crisis,” it’s as good as ignoring it… Seding Colin Powel over there isn’t going to do a dammed thing for the next rape victims. From the article: > [@](#): > > Despite growing desire in the administration and Congress for action on Darfur, there’s little willingness to put US boots on the ground to stop the killing or keep the peace. Also, this advice is perplexing…why would we want to strengthen ties with the government, who is BACKING the raping militia? > [@](#): > > Furthermore, [says Jennifer Cooke of the Center for Strategic and International Studies], if they [the Bush administration can **strengthen ties with Sudan’s government** , "they could make the case that, ‘Our strong confrontation against terror has been productive not only in Iraq, but we’ve also brought some rogue states back into the fold.’ " We have a huge humanitarian crisis and a genocide going on there, and we can’t send a single soldier over there? How sad, how very sad ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/14 "2004-06-30T22:34:32Z")
The UN will do fuck all because the international community pretty much doesn’t care enough to help. They may have shitloads of meetings, plenty of committees, hundreds of depressing reports and dire warnings of human rights disasters, but actually get in there and help put a stop to it? No fucking way. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/15 "2004-07-01T11:37:47Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Why don’t we provide the whole truth here. The Bush Administration is doing more than any administration in history to address the situation in Sudan, and is making progress there. > > [http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0630/p01s04-woaf.html](http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0630/p01s04-woaf.html) > > Now, whether it’s enough is a matter of fair debate. But saying we’re ignoring the problem isn’t accurate. > [@](#): > > In comments just ahead of the trip, Andrew Natsios, head of the US Agency for International Development, who was traveling with Mr. Powell, said up to 1 million Sudanese refugees could die this year due to government-supported ethnic cleansing. Amazing that SH is estimated to have killed half that amount _during his entire reign_, let along a single year. So we should sending troops in immediately right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/16 "2004-07-01T12:12:39Z")
Ah, yes…Sudan. A proud member what PJ O’Rourke called ‘that part of the world that is completely fucked’. It’s true that there’s not one whole hell of a lot of caring going on here by the world at large. But in the end what could we (meaning the west) do? Cut off ties to their government? Invade? Appeal to the UN? I just don’t see the bang for buck there. I don’t think any of it would work without significant buy-in from the leaders there. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/17 "2004-07-01T12:58:45Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Amazing that SH is estimated to have killed half that amount _during his entire reign_, let along a single year. > > So we should sending troops in immediately right? > > Right? > [@World Eater in another thread](#): > > It happens to be a depressing fact of life that people all over the world suffer in a plethora of ways. People are being brutally ruled all over the globe, just like they’re starving all over the globe, and dying of disease all over the globe. In a perfect world, the global community would be able to prevent this sort of thing, but of course such things are impossible to prevent. Of course I care about the Iraqis getting slaughtered. Same goes for the current genocide going on in Sudan. I found it horrible that the Taliban oppressed woman, and ruled people with an iron fist in the name of religion. I’m saddened by all the people dying in droves of AIDS in Africa. Do you see the pattern here? There is a ton of wrong and injustice in this world, and still in light of all that, I’ll be the first to say I could give one shit about the Iraqis. I don’t care, simply because I can’t care, I have other things to concern myself with. I’m more concerned for my friends and family here in NY who barely escaped death on 9/11. I’m more concerned with one day having a family and making sure my children don’t live in a police state, or under the threat of terror. The iraqis are a world away from me, and frankly as long as they don’t pose a threat (and they sure as hell didn’t, don’t even fucking go there), I say let them deal with the cards that life tragically dealt them, it’s a shame, but oh well. > > For the meantime, we need to worry a bit more about what’s happening inside our borders, and get our own affairs in order. Then, and only, then can we actually be in a position to lend some actual help. Luckily, others don’t share your unhelpful attitude, and are actually making an effort to do something about the situation. Hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/18 "2004-07-01T13:09:28Z")
**Powell:** You know, the situation in your country reminds me of the situation in Iraq a few years back. The Baathists were committing genocide against the Kurds and everybody was wringing their hands about it and doing nothing. Of course, that situation has changed radically now. The Baathists are out of power and the Kurds are in control of their lands, with plenty of U.S. backing to keep them that way. **President Omar el-Bashir:** Surely you do not believe our government has been engaging in genocidal activities! \*\* Powell: \*\*Spare me the bullshit, I’m not a reporter. I’m a messenger. And the message I have for you is that unless you rein in your rapist bully boys for good, the next message you’ll be getting will be from the turret of one of our tanks, and your job description will change from “President” to “fugitive from a war crimes tribunal.” **President Omar el-Bashir:** But world opinion … **Powell:** Will be on our side this time. Everybody knows you’ve been running a genocide op here, and nobody except Al-Qaeda’s gonna be your friend. And we’re already at war with Al-Qaeda. Of course, we won’t engage in any prolonged nation-building activities this time. We’ll just arm the southern Sudanese – very, very well, and provide them with air cover and let them fend for themselves. We’re betting they’ll be very happy to do so, with proper arms and some training. \*\* President Omar el-Bashir:\*\* But then they could very well overrun us, and we will be the victims of all the genocide and rape. **Powell:** Yeah, that’ll be terrible. We’ll be sure and deplore it and wring our hands for at least as much time as we’ve spent deploring and wringing our hands over what you guys have been up to, before we take action. **President Omar el-Bashir:** What is the point of replacing one set of genocide victims with another? **Powell: That’s not really the outcome we are looking for. You have it in you power to prevent such events. All you have to do is call your bully boys off, and keep 'em off. We hope that events do not go to extremes in regard to your people, but since you’ve already pushed things to extremes for the people in Darfur, we feel we have to act. And we will. And no amount of faking it will work, either. We want action, or we’ll take you down. \*\* President Omar el-Bashir: I will take this message and give it much thought. \*\* Powell:** Think hard. We’ve already got a task force underway to this area and we’re setting up deals for land bases with some of your neighbors who do not love you at all. _Of course, this conversation will never occur, but I believe it would get some results if it occurred, and if there were credible evidence that Powell’s words carried weight._ ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/19 "2004-07-01T14:08:15Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > Luckily, others don’t share your unhelpful attitude, and are actually making an effort to do something about the situation. > > Hypocrite. Hypocrite? Ha! I was simply asking the war supporters if we should be sending over troops, because on a humanitarian scale, this is a hell of a lot worse then Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912/20 "2004-07-01T15:06:27Z")
It may come to that, **World Eater**. But you might recall that humanitarian concerns were secondary in our intervention in Iraq. The threat Saddam Hussein posed to the region was a primary concern. Not that you’d give a shit, of course, because you “have other things to concern yourself with.” Right? Or do you concede that there’s a world beyond Brooklyn that requires some fucking attention? You don’t have to agree with me. But for God’s sake, open your eyes and get serious about what’s happening in the damn world. I’ve been to sixteen different countries, many in the developing world. I can tell you there’s plenty of misery to go around, and the United States military can’t fix it all. It isn’t that big, and is stretched thin now just meeting its current commitments. Also, there is this fundamental truth that governments are responsible for serving their people. We have to do what we’re doing, namely working very hard to bring peace to the region. If that fails, perhaps a military solution would be necessary. But a military occupation won’t do a thing to bring the people of Darfor what they really need, which would be a rule of law backed up with rigid policing, market based economics, political freedom, schooling, and infrastructure development. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sudan-militiamen-systematically-raping-women-in-ethnic-cleansing-campaign/252912.md?page=2)