# Suddenly these Statues offend people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636 "2017-08-25T11:07:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/1 "2017-08-25T11:07:34Z")
Should we take down Mount Rushmore because Jefferson was a slave owner? Maybe we should take down all FDR statues and re-name roads because he sent the Japanese Americans to camps. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/2 "2017-08-25T11:09:42Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Should we take down Mount Rushmore because Jefferson was a slave owner? > > Maybe we should take down all FDR statues and re-name roads because he sent the Japanese Americans to camps. No, you’re not getting it. What does this have to do with elections anyway? Maybe an IMHO or Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/3 "2017-08-25T11:12:02Z")
As some other folks have said in other threads, there’s a difference between honoring someone _despite_ their moral failings, and honoring someone _because of_ their moral failings. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/4 "2017-08-25T11:21:53Z")
“Suddenly”? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/5 "2017-08-25T11:26:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > “Suddenly”? _…life has new meaning to meeee There’s beauty up above And things we never take notice of You wake up suddenly And decide that maybe it’s past time to take down a bunch of statues erected entirely for the purpose of promoting white supremacist views…_ ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/6 "2017-08-25T11:28:49Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > As some other folks have said in other threads, there’s a difference between honoring someone _despite_ their moral failings, and honoring someone _because of_ their moral failings. Well said. Another point: this isn’t about people being OFFENDED. It’s about the local governments funding and protecting and showing honor to traitors and racists, under the guise of preserving history. ---
**Author:** ![Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enter_the_Flagon)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/7 "2017-08-25T11:44:51Z")
No, let’s leave the statues of Jefferson and FDR standing. Since there exists a very bright line between traitors and non-traitors, the Slippery Slope Argument can be easily dismissed. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/8 "2017-08-25T12:03:38Z")
People have been offended by imagery glorifying the Confederacy, which was a nation of people who committed treason against the United States to preserve the right of white people to rape, torture, and kill black people on a whim, since the confederacy formed. There have been protests and agitations to remove such statues since they were installed either as reminders of white power during Jim Crow or as opposition during the Civil Rights era. But those protests were mostly from black people and their allies, who are fairly easy for the Republicans to dismiss. Now the message of those statues is both harder to obscure (the “Lost Cause” myth is harder to maintain when you can casually look up the real facts on a phone) and less acceptable to the majority of people, so they’re finally coming down. Pretending that objections are something brand new and out of nowhere is just absurd though. And, since people defending the statutes don’t like to hear it, here is a part of the dedication speech for a monument that came down yesterday: > [@](#): > > It is true that the snows of winter which never melt, crown our temples, and we realize that we are living in the twilight zone; that it requires no unusual strain to hear the sounds of the tides as they roll and break upon the other shore, “The watch-dog’s bark his deep bay mouth welcome as we draw near home”, breaks upon our ears—makes it doubly sweet to know that we have been remembered in the erection of this beautiful memorial. The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South – When “the bottom rail was on top” all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States – Praise God. > > I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/9 "2017-08-25T12:08:25Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Should we take down Mount Rushmore because Jefferson was a slave owner? If you think we should, make your case. If you don’t, explain why. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/10 "2017-08-25T12:12:35Z")
This might be as good a place as any to post what I was thinking on my drive in to work. In a perverse way, perhaps we should be happy for Trump’s election, because he is focusing attention on many of America’s worst aspects. I’m not sure whether the majority of Americans are good enough and strongwilled enough to do something about our longstanding prejudices, inequities, and hypocrisies, but perhaps it will be beneficial simply to shine a brighter light on what America truly stands for, instead of blindly proclaiming exceptionalism in all areas. I think our response to the ugliness of Trump and his supporters will go some ways towards demonstrating what America truly stands for. And I’m hoping we come out on the right side, though that is by no means assured. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/11 "2017-08-25T12:28:51Z")
People are not “suddenly” offended by these statues, they’ve been offended since the day they were erected it’s just that no one paid attention to the offended because those people doing were seen as not important. It’s only “sudden” because you haven’t been paying attention. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/12 "2017-08-25T12:33:57Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Should we take down Mount Rushmore because Jefferson was a slave owner? > > Maybe we should take down all FDR statues and re-name roads because he sent the Japanese Americans to camps. The fact that you think that these statues “suddenly” offend people is a reflection of the bubble many Americans live in. Union veterans were opposed to a statue of Lee at Gettysburg in 1903 and > [@](#): > > The black press did not find the phenomena quite so baffling. “In a large measure,” wrote the Chicago Defender in 1951, “the rebel craze is an ugly reaction to the remarkable progress of our group.” That was true in the North, as well as the South. > **[Why Is the Confederate Flag Still There?](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/why-is-the-flag-still-there/396431/)** > > After 150 years, there may finally be enough support in South Carolina to consign the banner to the past. > **[Why Are There Still So Many Confederate Monuments?](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/the-stubborn-persistence-of-confederate-monuments/479751/)** > > A new report identifies some 1,500 memorials to the Civil War’s losing cause, from schools to state holidays, ranging from the Deep South to the Pacific Northwest. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/13 "2017-08-25T12:59:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Broomstick** : > > People are not “suddenly” offended by these statues, they’ve been offended since the day they were erected it’s just that no one paid attention to the offended because those people doing were seen as not important. Even that’s not quite right. People did pay attention to the offended, insofar as the purpose of the statues in the first place was to offend them. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/14 "2017-08-25T13:28:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even that’s not quite right. People did pay attention to the offended, insofar as the purpose of the statues in the first place was to offend them. QFT. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/15 "2017-08-25T13:39:45Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > People are not “suddenly” offended by these statues, they’ve been offended since the day they were erected it’s just that no one paid attention to the offended because those people doing were seen as not important. > > It’s only “sudden” because you haven’t been paying attention. When folks say this about “people”, often they mean “regular people”. You know-- “white people”. This might be sub-conscious to a certain extent, but that is the assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/16 "2017-08-25T15:08:26Z")
[Perspective](https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/beta/exhibit/PwLCVMHQ62gYLg) on “erasing history”. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/17 "2017-08-25T15:11:17Z")
This whole debate has reminded me of the words of Malcolm Reynolds who said: “It’s my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of 'em was one kinda sombitch or another.” We can decide as a society which kinds of sombitches we honor and which we don’t. We can even, as an evolving society, change our minds on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/18 "2017-08-25T15:14:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > When folks say this about “people”, often they mean “regular people”. You know-- “white people”. So only “white people” are regular? Are you saying that all the non-white people have to eat the poop-inducing yoghurt from Jaime Lee Curtis? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/19 "2017-08-25T15:26:25Z")
Well, it wasn’t news to this white person, but then, I’ve long lived in mixed areas where I get to hear viewpoints from other people who aren’t exactly like me. I guess my viewpoint has long been why _wouldn’t_ African-Americans be offended by symbols of the Confederacy? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/20 "2017-08-25T15:37:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Drunky Smurf** : > > So only “white people” are regular? Of course not. That’s **John Mace** ’s point. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636.md?page=2)