# Suddenly these Statues offend people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636 "2017-08-25T11:07:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/241 "2017-08-30T05:00:14Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, we could start, for example, by taking down statues that were erected specifically to honor leaders who committed treason against their government in defense of the practice of white people literally enslaving non-white people. > > Statues that were advocated and chosen by white people, frequently in jurisdictions where non-white people were illegally prevented from voting, specifically to send the message that white people are determined to keep non-white people beneath them indefinitely. > > I mean, those Confederacy-glorifying Jim-Crow-era statues are in a very literal sense monuments to white privilege. How does their removal in any way “lower a white person beneath a non-white person”? > Not immediately, no. But you acknowledging white privilege, and declaring that white privilege is contributing to the problem of racism in policing, and going to Black Lives Matter protests to stand up against racism in policing, and persuading your white friends and family to do the same, who then persuade **their** white friends and family to do the same, until a large swathe of white America is mobilized against racism in policing and police departments across the country start having to pay some real attention to police/community relations and counteracting racial bias in police training, **probably ultimately would stop a cop in the South from shooting a black person**. > > No, of course you can’t solve systemic societal racial problems all by yourself or all at once. But you sure as hell can do something about them that’s a bit more constructive than just sitting on your ass whining about how unfair it is that you personally occasionally catch some of the flak directed at white people as a group for the existence and persistence of systemic social racial problems. When Black Lives Matter condemn the bigoted members of their alliance perhaps I will hear them out\*. When they cease acting in an anti-Semitic manner\*\*, perhaps I will be more willing to listen. When actions like what happened recently at the college in Oregon (where it was taken over by BLM students) are condemned by BLM, I will hear them out. It is unfair that I catch flak for things I didn’t do. I’m catching flak because I merely exist and happen to have less melanin. So, yeah, from my POV, pretty unfair. \*[White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader](https://www.leoweekly.com/2017/08/white-people/) \*\*[http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/15/black-lives-matters-anti-israel-platform-blindside/?utm\_campaign=shareaholic&utm\_medium=twitter&utm\_source=socialnetwork](http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/15/black-lives-matters-anti-israel-platform-blindside/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork) ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/242 "2017-08-30T05:30:27Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Actually I have stated numerous times **I am opposed to Confederate statues being in place; and I feel they should never have been put up.** We do not have statues to Benedict Arnold, and the Confederates are in the same category. As far as I know, we also do not have statues of King George III. > > Whites in general as a broad group benefit from it. I do not feel I personally in my life have. What I am opposed to is paying for the sins of others. I have absolutely no objection to statues of Confederates coming down. My worry is simply that it will be a slippery slope from there. > > I have no problem with leveling the playing field. What I am opposed to is leveling the playing field by moving one race down so that another may come up. Why not lift the race below to me to the same level as me? That would be leveling the playing field in a fair and just fashion. Is that so hard? To be honest, **Reddy** , I’ve had a hard time following what you are trying to say. You say that you are okay with the statues coming down, but then you also say that it will be a slippery slope that leads to the white man having to “bend the knee.” You say you don’t oppose a level playing field, but you also say “How do you remove “white privilege” without lowering a white person beneath a non-white person?” Which seems to argue that a) white privilege exists and b) removing it would put white people at a disadvantage. I find your arguments mostly incoherent, but the one thing that comes out loud and clear is your concern that taking down the statues is the beginning of a “slippery slope” process that ends up with the lowering of whites. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/243 "2017-08-30T06:36:19Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > When Black Lives Matter condemn the bigoted members of their alliance perhaps I will hear them out\*. What “bigotry” are you complaining about, specifically? Your footnote just links to an opinion piece by a black author suggesting that white people who claim to oppose white supremacy should donate to disadvantaged non-white people and should stand up to white supremacists. > [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > When they cease acting in an anti-Semitic manner\*\*, perhaps I will be more willing to listen What “anti-Semitic manner” are you complaining about, specifically? Your footnote just links to an article describing a BLM statement that accuses the state of Israel of engaging in “discrimination”, “apartheid”, and “genocide” against Palestinians via its ongoing occupation. Criticizing the actions of the state of Israel isn’t the same as being bigoted against Jews, even if you don’t happen to agree with the criticisms. [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] When actions like what happened recently at the college in Oregon (where it was taken over by BLM students) are condemned by BLM, I will hear them out. [/quote] What do you mean by “BLM students”, specifically? Nowhere in news reports about the protests at Evergreen have I seen any indication that any of the events or protests were organized or conducted by BLM. [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] It is unfair that I catch flak for things I didn’t do. I’m catching flak because I merely exist and happen to have less melanin. So, yeah, from my POV, pretty unfair. [/quote] And you have made up your mind you won’t try to do anything to fight back against far greater injustices against other people as long as anyone ever does anything that you consider unfair to you? Well, that’s… convenient, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/244 "2017-08-30T07:33:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > > > When actions like what happened recently at the college in Oregon (where it was taken over by BLM students) are condemned by BLM, I will hear them out. > > What do you mean by “BLM students”, specifically? Nowhere in news reports about the protests at Evergreen have I seen any indication that any of the events or protests were organized or conducted by BLM. Evergreen was not in Oregon, last time I looked. **Reddy** must be talking about something else where black or BLM students _actually took over_ a college. In Oregon. Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to what he is talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/245 "2017-08-30T08:17:07Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Evergreen was not in Oregon, last time I looked. **Reddy** must be talking about something else where black or BLM students _actually took over_ a college. In Oregon. Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to what he is talking about. It didn’t get a lot of news coverage because it happened the same day as the Bowling Green massacre. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/246 "2017-08-30T09:39:05Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > It’s hard to hand wave away this: > > “I shall never fight in the armed forces with a negro by my side … Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.” > > My question is why they are there in the first place. Because some “artist” decided to make some sort of bizarre statement? Not a good reason. Yes, Byrd’s past racism was absolutely terrible, but he renounced it unequivocally and apologized, which is a very good thing that should be celebrated. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/247 "2017-08-30T10:03:05Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Evergreen was not in Oregon, last time I looked. **Reddy** must be talking about something else where black or BLM students _actually took over_ a college. In Oregon. Perhaps someone could enlighten me as to what he is talking about. Forgive me for mistaking Washington with Oregon. They are right next to each other, are both on the opposite side of the continent from me, and the incident happened over a month ago. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/248 "2017-08-30T10:11:42Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > What “bigotry” are you complaining about, specifically? Your footnote just links to an opinion piece by a black author suggesting that white people who claim to oppose white supremacy should donate to disadvantaged non-white people and should stand up to white supremacists. You make it sound as if it was as benign as a charity. Did you miss the part where whites are suggested to “downsize” and give their homes to non-whites, for example? Do you really think the author has any love for white people? If I own a house, and I worked to earn it, why should I give it to someone just because I have white skin and they don’t? Why should I just give away something I worked for, period? Unless I submit and give away what I have, I support “white supremacy”? Let me ask, and please try to be honest: Would you accept the forced redistribution of land from white landowners to non-whites? Be honest, please. > [@](#): > > What “anti-Semitic manner” are you complaining about, specifically? Your footnote just links to an article describing a BLM statement that accuses the state of Israel of engaging in “discrimination”, “apartheid”, and “genocide” against Palestinians via its ongoing occupation. Criticizing the actions of the state of Israel isn’t the same as being bigoted against Jews, even if you don’t happen to agree with the criticisms. In my experience, such condemnations of Israel are only a stone’s throw from anti-Semitism. I support Israel 110%. I should ask you to submit a query to my Jewish friends (who first showed me the article) about how they feel. They themselves labelled it anti-Semitism; and I am inclined to agree with them. What of the recent interruption by BLM of the LGBT moment of silence? Is that also excusable? > [@](#): > > What do you mean by “BLM students”, specifically? Nowhere in news reports about the protests at Evergreen have I seen any indication that any of the events or protests were organized or conducted by BLM. I see where this is going. So, you’d disagree that the members of the campus were not in any way (individually) affiliated or ideologically sympathetic with BLM? T > [@](#): > > And you have made up your mind you won’t try to do anything to fight back against far greater injustices against other people as long as anyone ever does anything that you consider unfair to you? When I cease being considered the enemy for existing, I will consider being an ally. Until then, it doesn’t concern me. I will let the Nazis, the Neo-Confederates, and BLM duke it out; it’s not my problem. My concerns are with living my life, and with my family and my friends. People who hate me aren’t my friends. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/249 "2017-08-30T10:11:45Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Forgive me for mistaking Washington with Oregon. They are right next to each other, are both on the opposite side of the continent from me, and the incident happened over a month ago. No problem, I figured out what you meant, but my question still stands: [Edit] No it doesn’t, because you just answered it, but I think your answer’s somewhat evasive: > [@Reddy Mercury](#): > > So, you’d disagree that the members of the campus were not in any way (individually) affiliated or ideologically sympathetic with BLM? I don’t know whether they are or not. But you explicitly and specifically called them “BLM students”. Did you not actually mean anything by that except that some of the students were black? ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/250 "2017-08-30T10:16:46Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > No problem, I figured out what you meant, but my question still stands: > > [Edit] No it doesn’t, because you just answered it, but I think your answer’s somewhat evasive: > > I don’t know whether they are or not. But you explicitly and specifically called them “BLM students”. Did you not actually mean anything by that except that some of the students were black? I don't know, chanting "Black Power!" certainly makes it seem they might be affiliated with BLM. As well as statements against the police. "Whiteness is the most violent system to ever be." And note, BLM isn’t simply a Black organization; they have White members too. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/251 "2017-08-30T10:36:07Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > …I don’t know, chanting “Black Power!” certainly makes it seem they might be affiliated with BLM… Why? ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/252 "2017-08-30T10:41:23Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Why? Because it’s all intersectional bullshit, to be frank. Black Power. Third Wave Feminism. 72 genders. Black Lives Matter. Whites are “Mayosapiens” who should be mocked and belittled (as in a Facebook group whose purpose is the above); “Dear White People”, “White Privilege”, “Manspreading”, “Mansplaining”. After a while, it all becomes like background noise. Call it whatever you want - BLM, whatever. It’s all crap to me at this point, crap which I have no sympathy for. BLM is simply an easy label for a wide alliance of people who hate me. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/253 "2017-08-30T11:13:49Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Because it’s all intersectional bullshit, to be frank. Black Power. Third Wave Feminism. 72 genders. Black Lives Matter. Whites are “Mayosapiens” who should be mocked and belittled (as in a Facebook group whose purpose is the above); “Dear White People”, “White Privilege”, “Manspreading”, “Mansplaining”. After a while, it all becomes like background noise. Call it whatever you want - BLM, whatever. It’s all crap to me at this point, crap which I have no sympathy for. BLM is simply an easy label for a wide alliance of people who hate me. So, that is why you think the statues should not be taken down? ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/254 "2017-08-30T11:19:19Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > So, that is why you think the statues should not be taken down? How many ways do I have to say _ **I am not opposed to Confederate statues being taken down, and that they should never have been put up in the first place** _? What I am opposed to is **non** -Confederate statues coming down in a slippery slope unleashed by the culture war fervor that’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/255 "2017-08-30T11:19:31Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > You make it sound as if it was as benign as a charity. Did you miss the part where whites are suggested to “downsize” and give their homes to non-whites, for example? Nope, I didn’t miss it, except that you slightly misquoted it. The writer recommended that if white people can **afford** to downsize, they should give up their home to a poor family from a disadvantaged group. What’s “bigoted” about that? All of those suggestions—and note that they’re just suggestions for voluntary behavior—are just pointing out ways in which white people as a group have inherited benefits reaped from oppression and discrimination against non-white people. The author thinks it would be a good thing if more white people made the voluntary individual choice to even out that historical injustice somewhat by making some financial sacrifices to benefit non-white people. I’m not saying that everyone has to agree with her, and I certainly think it would be discriminatory to mandate any kind of **legal** requirement that every white person who owns a house has to turn it over to a black family or whatever. But that’s not what’s being advocated here. In fact, I’m kind of stunned that anybody could be so affronted and resentful about a simple suggestion in favor of a voluntary act. Have you really never before encountered any kind of general exhortation that you should voluntarily sacrifice something because it would be more moral and just to others? Not to sound like a Chick tract here, but have you ever heard of a guy called Jesus, for example? [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] Do you really think the author has any love for white people? If I own a house, and I worked to earn it, why should I give it to someone just because I have white skin and they don’t? Why should I just give away something I worked for, period? [/quote] Hey, **I** don’t care what you personally decide to give away or not give away, and I doubt the author of that article does, either. She’s just saying what she thinks would be a good thing overall for counteracting the historical accumulation of unfair advantage that being white gets you, on average, in this society. [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] Let me ask, and please try to be honest: Would you accept the forced redistribution of land from white landowners to non-whites? Be honest, please. [/quote] **Forced** , on an **individual** level, on the basis of race? No, as I said, I wouldn’t. (Though I’m open to the possibility that tax-funded financial reparations to descendants of slaves might be a constructive policy, but that’s another matter.) But once again, the article in question has nothing to do with “forced redistribution”, so why are you so upset about that? [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] In my experience, such condemnations of Israel are only a stone’s throw from anti-Semitism. I support Israel 110%. I should ask you to submit a query to my Jewish friends (who first showed me the article) about how they feel. They themselves labelled it anti-Semitism; and I am inclined to agree with them. [/quote] Speaking as a person of Jewish descent myself, I don’t think Jews are the only people allowed to have a valid opinion on what counts as anti-Semitism. To me, criticism of the policies of the Israeli government is not automatically anti-Semitic, just as, say, criticism of the policies of the Chinese government is not automatically racist or anti-Asian. [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] What of the recent interruption by BLM of the LGBT moment of silence? Is that also excusable? [/quote] I don’t approve of BLM Montreal’s (which, you may not be aware, is not by any means all of BLM as an organization or a movement) protest tactics about the Montreal Pride Parade, no. But that’s got nothing to do with the issue of bigotry. After all, you started this argument about BLM with various weird accusations of bigotry on the part of the organization. You do understand that BLM Montreal’s protest wasn’t about being anti-gay, right? On the contrary, they were protesting what they saw as the “whitewashing” of the Pride parade and saying that LGBTQ people of color were being unfairly marginalized. I may not support their choice of protest tactics, but again, that’s got nothing to do with bigotry. [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] When I cease being considered the enemy for existing, I will consider being an ally. [/quote] Being told the truth about inherent racial unfairness in our society, and having it mildly suggested to you that the long-term beneficiaries of that unfairness as a group should consider making some voluntary individual sacrifices to help balance out past injustices, is not “being considered the enemy for existing”. Your complaining about the perceived aggression and affront of **simply being expected to understand, and perhaps even care about, a few fundamental facts about race and society in America** , comes across as massively snowflakey. [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] Until then, it doesn’t concern me. I will let the Nazis, the Neo-Confederates, and BLM duke it out; it’s not my problem. [/quote] Like I said, very convenient. What a tragedy that the struggle against racism should be deprived of an ally with such strong and selfless passion for justice, though. Sad. [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] My concerns are with living my life, and with my family and my friends. [/quote] The thing is, some people feel that as moral human beings, we also have an obligation to be concerned about justice and fairness even for people who **aren’t** our families or our friends. If you care only about your friends, what’s praiseworthy about that? (Whoops there I go again! Don’t know what’s got into me, lifelong atheist, honest. :)) [QUOTE=Reddy Mercury] People who hate me aren’t my friends. [/QUOTE] There, there, it is perfectly possible for people to hate your resentful oversensitivity and complacency and self-pity without actually hating **you**. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/256 "2017-08-30T11:19:41Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > BLM is simply an easy label for a wide alliance of people who hate me. Oooookay. Have you considered that maybe it’s not all about you? ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/257 "2017-08-30T11:29:01Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Though I’m open to the possibility that tax-funded financial reparations to descendants of slaves might be a constructive policy, but that’s another matter. And that tells me all I need to know about you. Whites should pay taxes for being White, in essence. > [@](#): > > After all, you started this argument about BLM with various weird accusations of bigotry on the part of the organization. You do understand that BLM Montreal’s protest wasn’t about being anti-gay, right? On the contrary, they were protesting what they saw as the “whitewashing” of the Pride parade and saying that LGBTQ people of color were being unfairly marginalized. By all means, let them alienate their potential allies. Perhaps if they do so, the less I’ll have to hear about them. > [@](#): > > Like I said, very convenient. What a tragedy that the struggle against racism should be deprived of an ally with such strong and selfless passion for justice, though. Sad. It is not justice to judge an entire race guilty of some original sin. It wasn’t when the slavers justified slavery using the Bible; it isn’t justified when saying all Whites are responsible for the sins of their forefathers. Perhaps we should do posthumous trials of slavers. That might help. > [@](#): > > The thing is, some people feel that as moral human beings, we also have an obligation to be concerned about justice and fairness even for people who **aren’t** our families or our friends. If you care only about your friends, what’s praiseworthy about that? (Whoops there I go again! Don’t know what’s got into me, lifelong atheist, honest. :)) Being concerned about justice is quite different from constantly screaming “check your privilege.” I can be concerned about police brutality, and vote for people who will place greater checks on the police, without giving my house to someone because you believe they’re owed it because some dead white man did shitty things a hundred years ago. It’s not happening, and it will never happen. Sorry 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/258 "2017-08-30T11:30:30Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > How many ways do I have to say _ **I am not opposed to Confederate statues being taken down, and that they should never have been put up in the first place** _? > > What I am opposed to is **non** -Confederate statues coming down in a slippery slope unleashed by the culture war fervor that’s going on. I ask because you are unloading all this racial baggage you carry in a thread about taking down Confederate statues. If you don’t want people to think that you are opposed to taking down the statues, quit throwing around phrases like white people “bending the knee” in a thread about confederate statues. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/259 "2017-08-30T11:30:50Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > You make it sound as if it was as benign as a charity. Did you miss the part where whites are suggested to “downsize” and give their homes to non-whites, for example? > [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > It is not justice to judge an entire race guilty of some original sin. I’m pretty sure nobody whose opinion matters to anyone is saying this. You’re spending this entire thread raging against some existential threat to white people that _does not exist_. Maybe you need to sit down and ask yourself why you seem to think that racial equality is impossible and one race must oppress the others as the natural order of things. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/260 "2017-08-30T11:38:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I’m pretty sure nobody whose opinion matters to anyone is saying this. You’re spending this entire thread raging against some existential threat to white people that _does not exist_. Maybe you need to sit down and ask yourself why you seem to think that racial equality is impossible and one race must oppress the others as the natural order of things. The entirety of human history is the story of one group of people oppressing another to get to the proverbial head of the line. Before it became a racial issue, it was a cultural issue issue (IE the Romans oppressing the ‘savage’ Germans); before that a territorial issue, before that a tribal issue. Like war, one group oppressing another has been with the human race from the beginning. It’s one of our less admirable traits, but it’s been a constant throughout history. Why should now be any different? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636.md?page=14)