# Suddenly these Statues offend people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636 "2017-08-25T11:07:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/301 "2017-08-31T12:02:15Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > That is a very telling turn of phrase. > > If he honestly believes that showing respect to his “betters” that shows that he has been taught that he has “betters” and that people who don’t show such respect to their “betters” and bad people. > > Try showing respect for all and recognize that all persons are created equal. Aye, I wonder now who he thinks are his “betters” and if he thinks he is anyone else’s “better” (and why). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/302 "2017-08-31T12:16:44Z")
[Aunt Eller] “I don’t say I’m no better than anybody else, But I’ll be danged if I ain’t just as good!” [/Aunt Eller] ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/303 "2017-08-31T12:35:31Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > That is a very telling turn of phrase. > > If he honestly believes that showing respect to his “betters” that shows that he has been taught that he has “betters” and that people who don’t show such respect to their “betters” and bad people. > > Try showing respect for all and recognize that all persons are created equal. > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Your betters? (see the part I bolded above) > > Do you mind explaining who you consider to be your betters? Thanks in advance. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Aye, I wonder now who he thinks are his “betters” and if he thinks he is anyone else’s “better” (and why). You got it all wrong. He’s a bookie, and he is just respectful to his clients, that seems fair. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/304 "2017-08-31T13:01:39Z")
> [@purplehearingaid](#): > > I hope the next step will be getting rid of Columbus Day ! I’m cool with that as long as we replace it with another bank holiday, like say election day. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/305 "2017-08-31T13:03:53Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Probably. Especially when talking about the confederate flag issue. > > Not so much so when talking about the slippery slope argument Silver Lining (and a variety of others (MI)) bring up. You snipped that part from his quote (no accusation intended), but it seems the bigger issue than the Flag/Lee debate. > > That is, where does it end? How far is too far? > > \*\*New York mayor considers Christopher Columbus statue removal \*\* > [New York mayor considers Christopher Columbus statue removal | New York | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/25/new-york-christopher-columbus-statue-de-blasio) > > **San Jose organizers push to remove Christopher Columbus statue from City Hall** > [San Jose organizers push to remove Christopher Columbus statue from City Hall](http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/internal-affairs-san-jose-organizers-push-to-remove-christopher-columbus-statue-from-city-hall/) > > **Pepperdine Will Remove Christopher Columbus Statue** > [remove christopher columbus - Search](https://www.bing.com/search?q=remove+christopher+columbus&pc=MOZI&form=MOZTSB) > > Seems a fair point to make and a concern to consider. I don’t know the answer to how far is too far, but the trend seems in the air, and with no signs of it slowing down. Only going farther and faster. > **[Jewish activists target removal of Peter Stuyvesant monuments](https://nypost.com/2017/08/24/jewish-activists-target-removal-of-peter-stuyvesant-monuments/)** > > Move over Christopher Columbus, it’s Peter Stuyvesant’s turn to get scorched in the monuments war. A Jewish activist group is now demanding Mayor de Blasio scrub all traces of the anti-… Yep, the trend is in the air. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/306 "2017-08-31T13:19:41Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The J.E.B Stuart monument that’s just down the street from me has HERO engraved on it. > > If it’s wrong for us to judge the past by standards of today, why is it right for us to be subjected to judgments issued by people who lived in the past? Why do they get their opinions permanently engraved in stone? When does it become okay for our opinions to outweigh theirs? They’re changing the name of a few high school around here named after confederate generals including JEB Stuart. Its going to cost about $1 million for each school. Some of these districts can’t fully staff their special programs (like music, art, languages) because of budgetary constraints. Is this the best use of resources? Perhaps it is. I don’t know if we will ever have another opportunity to remove their names from the public square and relegate them to the dark corners of museums and libraries for those who give a shit about who was on the wrong side of the civil war? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/307 "2017-08-31T13:23:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > For the purposes of deciding whether to keep a monument in a person’s honor, I don’t care about their values in the past. I certainly don’t care about their grammar. The words indicates a difference between what people considered the state then versus today. Its not grammar policing Before the civil war people referred to “these United States” after the Civil war people referred to “the United States” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/308 "2017-08-31T13:27:52Z")
How the heck can it cost a million bucks to change the name of a school? More to the point, whose pocket is that million ending up in? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/309 "2017-08-31T13:37:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > How the heck can it cost a million bucks to change the name of a school? More to the point, whose pocket is that million ending up in? I don’t know. We just had a special election for a Republican school board member who resigned (if she had resigned 10 days later we wouldn’t have needed the special election and could have had it in November with all the other elections, the election is costing the county $250,000) and the name change was one of the issues. The estimated cost of the name change was $700,000- $1 million depending on who you ask. I have no idea how they came up with that number, but I was shocked as well. Between uniforms, architectural changes and changing the names in everything that has a JEB Stuart name on it (books in the library, etc.) I can see the cost getting pretty high unless most of the work is performed by volunteers. > **[Opinion | Where was the criticism of the cost of the J.E.B. Stuart name change?](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/where-was-the-criticism-of-the-cost-of-the-jeb-stuart-name-change/2017/08/28/9c954f6e-8ad3-11e7-96a7-d178cf3524eb_story.html?utm_term=.03961c46846f)** > > The Aug. 26 editorial “For Fairfax County School Board” complained about the $250,000 cost of the special election but offered no comment about the $1 million cost the Democratic-leaning school boar... > **[Debate over J.E.B. Stuart High School name change continues - WTOP News](https://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2016/05/debate-over-j-e-b-stuart-high-school-name-change-continues/slide/1/)** > > Fairfax County Public Schools officials listened to a room packed with parents, students, and alumni as the debate continues over whether the name of J.E.B. Stuart High School should be changed. > **[Opinion | Change J.E.B. Stuart High School’s name](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/change-jeb-stuart-high-schools-name/2017/07/25/8914696e-7149-11e7-8f39-eeb7d3a2d304_story.html?utm_term=.52e46806ab19)** > > Renaming the Fairfax County school would right a wrong, not erase history. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/310 "2017-08-31T14:21:13Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > But I pay for for my unearned advantages by obeying the law, being respectful to my betters, and treating each man and woman like I would want to be treated. Who are your “betters” and who are you “better” to? I think we all want to know the > [@](#): > > If equality was going to be done cleanly, the time for that was in 1865, or 1789, or prior. It’s too late now for any clean, equal, blind justice to be instilled. There is too much water under the bridge. So the idea is we should leave up racist monuments because bad stuff has happened in the past, which means we can’t take them down now? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/311 "2017-08-31T14:35:01Z")
And yes, that was the time for clean justice, and we missed the opportunity. As a result, we now have a choice between unclean justice, or unclean injustice. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/312 "2017-08-31T21:10:15Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You got it all wrong. He’s a bookie, and he is just respectful to his clients, that seems fair. My “betters” are people in any service industry, and also elders/seniors. It’s just a fancy of saying I was raised to address people in service industries as “Sir”, “Miss”, and speak politely to older people. People who work hard in the service sector and such or who are doing me favors are worthy of an extra mile of respect as are the elderly and aged. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/313 "2017-08-31T21:12:32Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Who are your “betters” and who are you “better” to? I think we all want to know the > > So the idea is we should leave up racist monuments because bad stuff has happened in the past, which means we can’t take them down now? I know SJWS like you keep wanting to pretend I said I’m in favor of the statues, but **I’M NOT**. Do I have to say it again and again and again and again and again? ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/314 "2017-08-31T22:13:39Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > I know SJWS like you keep wanting to pretend I said I’m in favor of the statues, but **I’M NOT**. Do I have to say it again and again and again and again and again? Until you stop making arguments that support keeping the statues up, no one is going to believe your claim that you’re fine with them coming down. Repeating it won’t get people to believe that your argument that trying to fix things now is something that shouldn’t be done is an argument that we shouldn’t try to fix things, like the statues, now. Also calling me an SJW is pretty hilarious. I’m anti-racist, and since that includes things like “I don’t believe that hairstyles should be segregated by race” throws actual SJWs into conniption fits. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/315 "2017-08-31T22:15:27Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > actual SJWs A thing that pretty much exists only in the minds of the alt-right. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/316 "2017-08-31T22:27:07Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Until you stop making arguments that support keeping the statues up, no one is going to believe your claim that you’re fine with them coming down. Repeating it won’t get people to believe that your argument that trying to fix things now is something that shouldn’t be done is an argument that we shouldn’t try to fix things, like the statues, now. > > Also calling me an SJW is pretty hilarious. I’m anti-racist, and since that includes things like “I don’t believe that hairstyles should be segregated by race” throws actual SJWs into conniption fits. Where have I made an argument for keeping them up? I said my only concern was it would lead to a slippery slope afterward. It is valid to have concerns considering that SJWs pretty much despise Western culture in total. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/317 "2017-08-31T22:29:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > A thing that pretty much exists only in the minds of the alt-right. Lol okay. So a person who believes in: -Intersectional Feminism -White privilege as something that needs to be paid for -Cultural appropriation as something that is evil and must be stopped -Manspreading -Mansplaining -Imperialism is evil -Capitalism is evil -Wall Street is evil -Memorial Day and the Star Spangled Banner are racist (as per the recent Salon article) -Children should be raised genderless -There are 72 genders, and if you don’t believe that, you’re transphobic -Christianity is evil -America is a bad country Has no ideology that could be described as “Social Justice”, eh? SJWs are the most incredible liars. “Not I” said the SJW, “I believe none of those things” said the SJW, while furiously arguing for them elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/318 "2017-08-31T22:40:06Z")
Is that the definitive profile of an SJW? Promise? No take-backs? No later addenda? From the beginning? Really, all that looks like is a list of opinions—several of them nothing more than strawmen—that you disagree with. And then there’s the entire ethos of actually trying to behave as if the phrase “social justice warrior” can possibly describe something negative. If someone is seeking social justice, and you label that person as being that, then you’re taking a really weird position by suggesting that’s a bad person. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/319 "2017-08-31T22:47:06Z")
That seems like a distraction, Reddy. Several of us have asked since you believe you have “betters” does that mean you also have “inferiors.” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/320 "2017-08-31T23:35:30Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > -White privilege as something that needs to be paid for Yeah? Why the hell not? I have the privilege of being able to operate a motor vehicle on public streets – but I have _to pay for it_. Which I think is fair. If being white gives you privileges, what makes you think you ought to get those for free? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636.md?page=17)