# Suddenly these Statues offend people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 25, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636 "2017-08-25T11:07:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/21 "2017-08-25T15:40:42Z")
Hey, why is everyone suddenly against tobacco. People have been using tobacco for centuries. I don’t get it. Should we ban cars and banana peels? They kill people too. What’s going on? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/22 "2017-08-25T16:04:20Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > So only “white people” are regular? Are you saying that all the non-white people have to eat the poop-inducing yoghurt from Jaime Lee Curtis? > [@Chronos](#): > > Of course not. That’s **John Mace** ’s point. I’m hoping the second sentence indicates a joke. But in case anyone is wondering, **Chronos** is exactly correct. I was not advocating a white supremacist agenda, but just noting that sometimes we white folks have a white-centric view of things. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/23 "2017-08-25T16:11:50Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Should we take down Mount Rushmore because Jefferson was a slave owner? > > Maybe we should take down all FDR statues and re-name roads because he sent the Japanese Americans to camps. Since no one actually seems to be advocating anything like that, shall we discuss your reasons for wanting to have statues of noted Confederates in public spaces? Feel free to make your case. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/24 "2017-08-25T16:25:16Z")
I wonder if someone did seriously suggest altering/“taking down” Mt. Rushmore, if a bunch of nazis would show up with torches and weapons in defense of it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/25 "2017-08-25T16:39:52Z")
I know that Alex Jones and others have been saying that all the so-called Nazi groups are left-wing actors. Shouldn’t we liberals be talking to our bosses about other things that we can send our actors to that would get everybody else in the country scrambling to eliminate them? How about polluting coal mines? I realize that might be sudden, because nobody has ever complained about coal mining pollution before, ever, not at any time, but it’s a start. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/26 "2017-08-25T16:42:01Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > People have been offended by imagery glorifying the Confederacy, which was a nation of people who committed treason against the United States to preserve the right of white people to rape, torture, and kill black people on a whim, since the confederacy formed. There have been protests and agitations to remove such statues since they were installed either as reminders of white power during Jim Crow or as opposition during the Civil Rights era. But those protests were mostly from black people and their allies, who are fairly easy for the Republicans to dismiss. Now the message of those statues is both harder to obscure (the “Lost Cause” myth is harder to maintain when you can casually look up the real facts on a phone) and less acceptable to the majority of people, so they’re finally coming down. Pretending that objections are something brand new and out of nowhere is just absurd though. > > And, since people defending the statutes don’t like to hear it, here is a part of the dedication speech for a monument that came down yesterday: > > > [@](#): > > > > It is true that the snows of winter which never melt, crown our temples, and we realize that we are living in the twilight zone; that it requires no unusual strain to hear the sounds of the tides as they roll and break upon the other shore, “The watch-dog’s bark his deep bay mouth welcome as we draw near home”, breaks upon our ears—makes it doubly sweet to know that we have been remembered in the erection of this beautiful memorial. The present generation, I am persuaded, scarcely takes note of what the Confederate soldier meant to the welfare of the Anglo Saxon race during the four years immediately succeeding the war, when the facts are, that their courage and steadfastness saved the very life of the Anglo Saxon race in the South – When “the bottom rail was on top” all over the Southern states, and to-day, as a consequence the purest strain of the Anglo Saxon is to be found in the 13 Southern States – Praise God. > > > > I trust I may be pardoned for one allusion, howbeit it is rather personal. One hundred yards from where we stand, less than ninety days perhaps after my return from Appomattox, I horse-whipped a negro wench until her skirts hung in shreds, because upon the streets of this quiet village she had publicly insulted and maligned a Southern lady, and then rushed for protection to these University buildings where was stationed a garrison of 100 Federal soldiers. I performed the pleasing duty in the immediate presence of the entire garrison, and for thirty nights afterwards slept with a double-barrel shot gun under my head. Thank you, **Pantastic**. I’d like to see OP have the grace to say whether he read your post. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/27 "2017-08-25T16:52:15Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > This whole debate has reminded me of the words of Malcolm Reynolds who said: “It’s my estimation that every man ever got a statue made of 'em was one kinda sombitch or another.” We can decide as a society which kinds of sombitches we honor and which we don’t. We can even, as an evolving society, change our minds on the subject. I’d like to make a statue of this and put it in the town square of Canton. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/28 "2017-08-25T17:16:44Z")
I’m close enough. I’d go see it. [https://www.canton-mi.org/](https://www.canton-mi.org/) ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/29 "2017-08-25T17:28:27Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I’m close enough. I’d go see it. > > [https://www.canton-mi.org/](https://www.canton-mi.org/) If you are close enough, you can smell it. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/30 "2017-08-25T18:04:06Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I’m close enough. I’d go see it. > > [https://www.canton-mi.org/](https://www.canton-mi.org/) You’re the hero ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/31 "2017-08-25T23:38:54Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > No, you’re not getting it. > > What does this have to do with elections anyway? Maybe an IMHO or Pit thread. I’ d say its becoming an issue for the 2018 elections ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/32 "2017-08-25T23:42:34Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Since no one actually seems to be advocating anything like that, shall we discuss your reasons for wanting to have statues of noted Confederates in public spaces? Feel free to make your case. You don’t get it. Both sides could argue national monuments, roads or states represent racism. Personally, I think the confederate flag and statues that represent them are best shown in a museum, but until recently few even cared about them. Now they are being used for political points. It’s a slippery slope. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/33 "2017-08-25T23:56:18Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > Personally, I think the confederate flag and statues that represent them are best shown in a museum, **but until recently few even cared about them.** As has been explained to you repeatedly in this thread, you are wrong about this. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/34 "2017-08-26T00:00:36Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > You don’t get it. Both sides could argue national monuments, roads or states represent racism. > > Personally, I think the confederate flag and statues that represent them are best shown in a museum,\*\* but until recently few even cared about them. \*\* Now they are being used for political points. It’s a slippery slope. Fixed. But until recently few _whites_ even cared about them. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/35 "2017-08-26T00:31:09Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > but until recently few even cared about them. Not true. What is true that until recently the people who cared didn’t have enough say to do anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/36 "2017-08-26T00:38:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > As has been explained to you repeatedly in this thread, you are wrong about this. Probably. Especially when talking about the confederate flag issue. Not so much so when talking about the slippery slope argument Silver Lining (and a variety of others (MI)) bring up. You snipped that part from his quote (no accusation intended), but it seems the bigger issue than the Flag/Lee debate. That is, where does it end? How far is too far? \*\*New York mayor considers Christopher Columbus statue removal \*\* > **[New York mayor considers Christopher Columbus statue removal](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/25/new-york-christopher-columbus-statue-de-blasio)** > > Bill de Blasio orders review of Columbus statue near Central Park amid national debate that followed Charlottesville **San Jose organizers push to remove Christopher Columbus statue from City Hall** > **[San Jose organizers push to remove Christopher Columbus statue from City Hall](https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/08/22/internal-affairs-san-jose-organizers-push-to-remove-christopher-columbus-statue-from-city-hall/)** > > A battle is brewing inside San Jose City Hall to remove a statue some say represents violence and genocide.  **Pepperdine Will Remove Christopher Columbus Statue** > **[remove christopher columbus - Bing](https://www.bing.com/search?q=remove%2Bchristopher%2Bcolumbus&pc=MOZI&form=MOZTSB)** > > Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you. Seems a fair point to make and a concern to consider. I don’t know the answer to how far is too far, but the trend seems in the air, and with no signs of it slowing down. Only going farther and faster. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/37 "2017-08-26T00:44:34Z")
Not an Elections issue. Off to great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/38 "2017-08-26T00:44:38Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > That is, where does it end? How far is too far? We as a society _should_ always be asking us what kind of people we want to honor with public monuments and for what reasons. This isn’t a “slippery slope.” This is people giving a shit. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/39 "2017-08-26T00:48:05Z")
Columbus has been a major point of contention for the past couple of decades. He didn’t just own slaves, he enslaved free people. And also genocide. But other than that, he never set foot on any square inch of US soil. Absolutely nothing new about tearing down his stature. Only difference now is tearing out that extra “r”. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636/40 "2017-08-26T00:59:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > _…life has new meaning to meeee > There’s beauty up above > And things we never take notice of > You wake up suddenly > And decide that maybe it’s past time to take down a bunch of statues erected entirely for the purpose of promoting white supremacist views…_ Not to be confused with: _Tell me what is the colour of love, what do you see Is it warm, is it tender when you think of me I see the colour of love when I’m thinking of you As a picture perfect statute that will finally be taken down so we can finally stop acting like Confederate “heros” weren’t, in truth, quite villainous towards all the Americans they killed in battle and all the black people they sought to keep in bondage._ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suddenly-these-statues-offend-people/794636.md?page=3)