# Suggest a space opera for a person who doesn't read science fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [March 15, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902 "2021-03-15T00:12:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/41 "2021-03-15T13:48:30Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’ll risk revealing what a lightweight I am and suggest Asimov’s _Foundation_ series. That was my first thought too: “big, vast books with sequels, most dealing with the political and cultural implications of what it is the author is exploring”? That’s _Foundation_ (particularly as you can link the _I, Robot_ series in (and _Pebble in the Sky_) as well. I’d mention the Pratchett/Baxter _Long Earth_ series but frankly the rapidly decreasing amount of Pratchett means that an interesting concept wanders off into the weeds, and you get a whole book on a fun way to destroy a planet using magnets. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/42 "2021-03-15T13:55:04Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m looking for stories which explore the implications of technology and social development on an interstellar scale, not stories where the tech is little more than a backdrop to the plot. Reading this makes me think of the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/43 "2021-03-15T14:16:33Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That was my first thought too: “big, vast books with sequels, most dealing with the political and cultural implications of what it is the author is exploring”? That’s _Foundation_ (particularly as you can link the _I, Robot_ series in (and _Pebble in the Sky_ ) as well. On the one hand, Asimov is interested in political/cultural implications of his stuff, sure. On the other hand, in my opinion _he’s really bad at that_. The societies he creates are interesting, but interesting as baubles and puzzles, not really as plausible societies with subtleties. Admittedly it’s been yonks since I’ve read any of his stuff–but that’s in large part because his social dynamics were so off-putting to me. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/44 "2021-03-15T14:36:58Z")
I don’t think I’ve seen the four book series [Cities in Flight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cities_in_Flight) by _James Blish_ suggested? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/45 "2021-03-15T14:39:13Z")
Space Opera? It’s a big topic – in more ways than one. Unfortunately, a lot of the classic books are Out Of Print, or at least out of book stores. And a lot of the Classic ones are very out of date. One advantage of a lot of this being old is that it’s available cheap in the form of e-books, so you can find them on Kindle or Nook. But here’s a list. Forgive me if I’m doing a lot of repeating – I only skimmed the above. The originators of Space Opera are arguably E.E. “Doc” Smith The Lensman series The Skylark series Especially Lensman, which is so far-out that it hasn’t aged all that badly. It was also incredibly influential – Gren Lantern stole a lot from it, as possibly did Star Wars. Edmond Hamilton In the 1920s and 1930s he came up with a host of outrageous devices and plots, sometime destroying entire worlds. Married to fellow SF and fantasy writer Leigh Brackett, who (if you’re looking for Star Wars connections) wrote the first draft screenplay for _The Empire Strikes Back_ Leigh Brackett …of course. They named an SF vision of the solar system after her. Poul Anderson Lots of stories, including his Dominick Flandry, Nicholas van Rijn, David Falkyn, and Hoka series. He also wrote lots of stand-alone space opera, and fantasy A. Bertram Chandler Maerchant Marine captain who wrote lots of space-as-a-bigger-ocean novels, including his Rim World series and his John Grimes novels Larry Niven Surely his Tales of Known Space series qualifies as space opera. Including the infinite series of “Man-Kzin War” collections with other authors. That barely scratches the surface, but it’ll give you a start. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/46 "2021-03-15T14:40:16Z")
I’d say so, although IMO “A Deepness in The Sky” is far better than “Fire Upon the Deep”. I never could get into the “The Children of The Sky” though. As far as John Scalzi is concerned, I’m torn between recommending “The Collapsing Empire” or “Old Man’s War” as his better space opera efforts. If nothing else, the latter series has the interesting pair of “Zoe’s Tale” / “The Last Colony” being the same events told from two different characters’ perspectives. The “Remembrance of Earth’s Past” series (Three Body Problem) starts out strong, but goes downhill fast as the series goes on- the further into the future it goes, the more crazy it gets. I very much enjoyed David Brin’s _Uplift_ series and Frederik Pohl’s _Gateway_ series. And the _Culture_ series by Iain M. Banks are great as well. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/47 "2021-03-15T14:54:48Z")
James H. Schmitz. Added bonus that many of his main characters were female. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/48 "2021-03-15T15:03:33Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’d say so, although IMO “A Deepness in The Sky” is far better than “Fire Upon the Deep”. Blasphemy! ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/49 "2021-03-15T15:04:46Z")
I endorse the suggestion towards Vernor Vinge, although the “Zones of Thought” novels have a degree of sequel-ness to them (particularly _A Fire Upon the Deep_ and _Children of the Sky_). _A Deepness in the Sky_ is a prequel with a significantly different-looking milieu, so IMHO feels more self-contained. It does end with a subtle sequel hook which ties it into the action in _A Fire Upon the Deep_, albeit literally millennia later. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/50 "2021-03-15T17:45:39Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Stephen R. Donaldson’s _Gap Cycle_ series is a very intelligent, well-written space opera… but it’s also exactly the kind of story that the term “trigger warning” was invented for, so if you have a problem with people doing horrible things to other people, best steer clear. Donaldson’s writing is so turgid that even if he was writing about the Care Bears throwing a birthday party for the My Little Ponies, I’d steer clear of him. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/51 "2021-03-15T17:52:54Z")
I might actually read that! Yeah, Donaldson’s writing style is—or at least can be—a bit much, although not enough to keep me from reading and enjoying him. Maybe it helps if you make a drinking game out of it: e.g. while reading The Gap Cycle, take a drink every time you encounter the word “brisance.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/52 "2021-03-15T17:57:32Z")
Did he move on from “chthonic” and “preternatural?” Also, no thanks. My liver is down to two lobes as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/53 "2021-03-15T18:04:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > As far as John Scalzi is concerned, I’m torn between recommending “The Collapsing Empire” or “Old Man’s War” as his better space opera efforts. If nothing else, the latter series has the interesting pair of “Zoe’s Tale” / “The Last Colony” being the same events told from two different characters’ perspectives. I thought of recommending “Old Man’s War,” but in a very loose way, it seems more military SF than space opera to me. I know there’s huge overlap between the subgenres, but Collapsing Empire is more in the Dune mold that the OP is looking for, while still having Scalzi’s trademark wisecrackery and grand schemes. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/54 "2021-03-15T18:08:17Z")
True… I guess I’m just a bit hesitant to suggest “The Collapsing Empire” because I was kind of disappointed with the last book, while on the whole, I loved “Old Man’s War”. I didn’t really see it as military SF, as I saw it more as John Perry’s adventure in this new universe, and the military was the only way he could get there. Similarly, Jane had sort of the reverse of that experience. And the Harry Wilson books/stories were pretty much straight-up space opera as I understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/55 "2021-03-15T18:10:13Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Donaldson’s writing style is—or at least can be—a bit much, I enjoy his books more now that I have them on my kindle, and can just touch the word in question to get a quick definition. It sure has expanded my vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/56 "2021-03-15T18:20:17Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Cherryh’s _Chanur_ series is pretty good. I was thinking Downbelow Station as an introduction to the genre. It comes with a little intro to set the stage, human protagonists, interstellar as well as petty politics and military strategy, multiple factions/pov and it can also act as the best entry point to Cherryh’s extended Union-Alliance space if interest develops. But it really depends how much you enjoy that particular blend of hers. The drawback compared to the first Chanur book - longer and less kinetic. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/57 "2021-03-15T18:27:15Z")
The **Sten** sequence by Chris Bunch and Alan Cole. Eternal Emperor, skullduggery, betrayal, worlds in conflict, and spotted snakes! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/58 "2021-03-15T18:37:17Z")
I would hesitate to recommend what I would call British SF to anyone as an introduction to space opera; authors like Iain Banks, Stephen Baxter, Peter Hamilton, Alistair Reynolds, Charles Stross, or Vernor Vinge (although he’s an American). They are all great authors but their style is not as accessible to people looking for an introduction to science fiction. Their writing style often assumes a familiarity with the conventions of the genre. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/59 "2021-03-15T18:43:23Z")
“A Memory Called Empire” by Arkady Martine leaps to mind (in addition to the previous ones mentioned). I will say that Foundation seems to me to be deliberately the opposite of space opera. Space Opera is all about individuals having extreme agency (being able to influence vast events through their personal actions) - and Foundation is all about individuals (with very rare exceptions) being the pawns of vast social processes ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2021, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902/60 "2021-03-15T22:52:35Z")
There was a wonderful online essay about the _Gap_ series which was nothing more than a web page by an author who loved the books and loved their flaws even more. _I cannot find it_. Any one remember this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggest-a-space-opera-for-a-person-who-doesnt-read-science-fiction/937902.md?page=4)