# Suggestion: rescind the rule forbidding mod/rule complaints in the Pit **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 26, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094 "2009-06-26T18:32:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/21 "2009-06-28T03:00:18Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > **Una** , it is grey-fuzzy, so I’m not going to formally warn, but I am going to suggest (firmly) that such things belong in the Pit and not here. Cheerfully noted, and I apologize to both you and the poster I referenced above for forgetting the forum - I could have sworn the thread was in the **BBQ Pit** , or I would never have posted what I did. In fact when I looked for responses to this thread I looked in the BBQ Pit and didn’t see the thread, so I assumed it joined the long list of threads in the Moderator forum. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/22 "2009-06-28T04:02:15Z")
It did start out in the Pit and was moved to ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![TubaDiva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tubadiva/32/507_2.png) [@TubaDiva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TubaDiva)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/23 "2009-06-28T04:05:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It was my understanding that criticism of posters’ actions (as opposed to criticism of moderator and administrator actions) was inappropriate for ATMB. Was I misinformed, or is this a recent policy change? This is the major cause of closing such threads in what some see as a premature manner. Someone makes a complaint re a staff action/procedure, other people comment in the thread, and before too long at least a couple of people are on their way to Fist City. This derails the original intent of the thread and we wind up closing it and advising the combatants to take their fight elsewhere. Hopefully now that people are more aware of the situation on all sides we’ll have less of that sort of ending and better outcomes. If you have a problem with another poster – or develop a problem with another poster in the course of pursuing other situations here on the board – calling them out in ATMB is not the way to go. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/24 "2009-06-28T04:32:02Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I think **Liberal** ’s [recent Pitting of **tomndebb**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=522403) is a perfect example of why these types of threads work better in the Pit than ATMB. **Liberal** had complaints about an action of **tomndebb** ’s, and in a perfect world they would civilly discuss them in ATMB until mutual understanding was reached. In reality, complaint threads like this are often going to get contentious and disputes are going to crop up. Closing them the second a squabble breaks out seems like it will just frustrate people without resolving anything. Let people tell the complainer he’s a useless [del]motherfucker[/del] butthole, let **Der Trihs** argue against the trolling charges **Liberal** , let people speak freely about stuff that bugs them until it’s worked out. It’s not like we’ve historically had a problem with the staff being constantly abused in the Pit. Probably 99% of mod Pittings end up with a sizeable fraction of the posters mocking the OP. > > Given that the Pit is now pretty much just a grumpy MPSIMS with a dash of political outrage theatre (:(), it’s not like such threads would get in the way of anything. I think both the Pit and the board as a whole would be better off if this rule was changed back to the way it was. **Tomndebb** doesn’t even respond to complaint threads in ATMB. Basically they are simply ignored. \*\*Liberal’s \*\*pitting of **Tomndebb** is typical. In his attempts to calm people down (often after they’ve calmed down as Liberal points out) he takes a parting shot at whichever side he disagrees with and just fans the flames. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/25 "2009-06-28T05:05:44Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > **Tomndebb** doesn’t even respond to complaint threads in ATMB. Basically they are simply ignored. Except for the one mentioned in the OP. And at least three others if you do a title search for “tomndebb” for the past year–including one thread you started. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/26 "2009-06-28T07:35:30Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Given my personal opinion that the Board really doesn’t need Teh Pit, I see no reason to allow abuse of mods there. I agree. In fact, C K Dexter Haven sez “In short, we don’t see that name-calling and personal insults in any way promote discussion of moderator action.” and I think we can just cut off those last two words. How does name-calling and personal insults promote _anything_ good? Sure, we need a place to bitch and moan, and flame celebrities and politos, that’s fine. I cant see why name-calling and personal insults should be allowed at all, to and by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/27 "2009-06-28T11:06:10Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > It did start out in the Pit and was moved to ATMB. This thread did not start out in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/28 "2009-06-28T12:49:36Z")
> [@leander](#): > > This thread did not start out in the Pit. You misunderstand. The thread that started out in the Pit was **Liberal’s** pitting of **tomndebb**. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/29 "2009-06-28T22:23:22Z")
> [@TubaDiva](#): > > This is the major cause of closing such threads in what some see as a premature manner. > > Someone makes a complaint re a staff action/procedure, other people comment in the thread, and before too long at least a couple of people are on their way to Fist City. This derails the original intent of the thread and we wind up closing it and advising the combatants to take their fight elsewhere. But that’s part of the problem with having these types of threads in ATMB. I’m not talking about going to fist city or being insulting, but if complaints about the moderators go in ATMB, and complaints about regular posts go in the Pit, then where do you go to complain about posters complaints about mods? I realize I’m not being entirely clear, so here’s a scenario to clarify. In the old days, somebody could open a thread in the Pit saying, “ **TubaDiva** is being an unfair moderator and a jerk because she closed my thread about how all dogs go to heaven and warned me not to start any more threads about it.”. Then if another poster thinks that the pit starter’s complaint is unwarranted, they could answer, “You’ve posted 100 threads in the past week about canine afterlives, so **Tuba** did the right thing here. You need to get over your fixation with dead dogs because it’s creeping people out”. Except there’d probably be more obscenity by both posters because it’s the Pit and posters, for some reason, feel it’s obligatory. Nowadays, somebody opens a thread in ATMB “ **TubaDiva** is being an unfair moderator and a jerk because she closed my thread about how all dogs go to heaven and warned me not to start any more threads about it.”, and then what can poster number 2 do? He can start a thread in the Pit pitting the guy’s complaint, of course, but that seems overly formal and time consuming. Starting a new thread is a much more serious undertaking than just responding to an existing one, and of course he’ll have to link back to the ATMB thread and all. It was my understanding that what he can’t do is post the response I mentioned above in the ATMB thread, because it would be a violation of the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/30 "2009-06-28T22:57:10Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It was my understanding that what he can’t do is post the response I mentioned above in the ATMB thread, because it would be a violation of the rules. I don’t see that that would be a violation of the rules, since you are criticizing the poster’s behavior as it relates to the moderator action. As long as you are not making direct insults against the poster as a person, but instead are criticizing their behavior, it should be within ATMB guidelines. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/31 "2009-06-29T00:49:37Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > You misunderstand. The thread that started out in the Pit was **Liberal’s** pitting of **tomndebb**. I am aware that **Lib** ’s original thread started in the Pit, but \*\*Una \*\*was stating that she thought this thread (the one she posted in) started in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/32 "2009-06-29T00:55:55Z")
> [@leander](#): > > I am aware that **Lib** ’s original thread started in the Pit, but \*\*Una \*\*was stating that she thought this thread (the one she posted in) started in the Pit. Correct. I would not knowingly have posted what I did if I had not been mistaken about the forum. Hence I accepted responsibility and apologized above. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/33 "2009-06-29T00:57:22Z")
> [@leander](#): > > I am aware that **Lib** ’s original thread started in the Pit, but \*\*Una \*\*was stating that she thought this thread (the one she posted in) started in the Pit. Sorry. I see it now. Apology. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/34 "2009-06-29T01:05:51Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I don’t see that that would be a violation of the rules, since you are criticizing the poster’s behavior as it relates to the moderator action. As long as you are not making direct insults against the poster as a person, but instead are criticizing their behavior, it should be within ATMB guidelines. Except the thread that this thread is about ( **Liberal’s** pitting of **Tommndeb** ’s action) got closed, and that’s really what it was. There weren’t any direct insults after it had gotten moved to ATMB, **hajaro’s** post aside, which he had posted just after the move and before he realized it was in ATMB. There was a debate over the appropriateness of the thread, and it was dismissed as “squabbling” and closed. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/35 "2009-06-29T01:23:12Z")
Which is why they have said they intend to be more willing to let such a thread continue now. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/36 "2009-06-29T02:14:45Z")
And if the problem is a Pitting of a mod as a _poster_, not their actions as a _moderator_? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/37 "2009-06-29T02:21:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And if the problem is a Pitting of a mod as a _poster_, not their actions as a _moderator_? Allowed in the Pit. > [@](#): > > No complaints about SDMB administration in the Pit > > All comments or complaints about SDMB administration should go in the About This Message Board forum, not in the Pit. **Pitting of SDMB staff is permitted for views they express as ordinary posters.** > **[Revised Forum Rules for the BBQ Pit: read this before posting](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=507985)** > > The BBQ Pit is the forum for rants about the outside world or quarrels between posters - often the first turns into the second. Although the standards of discourse are looser than in the other forums, the Pit is NOT a free-for-all - you don’t have to... ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/38 "2009-06-29T02:35:29Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Except the thread that this thread is about ( **Liberal’s** pitting of **Tommndeb** ’s action) got closed, and that’s really what it was. There weren’t any direct insults after it had gotten moved to ATMB, **hajaro’s** post aside, which he had posted just after the move and before he realized it was in ATMB. There was a debate over the appropriateness of the thread, and it was dismissed as “squabbling” and closed. That’s not inconsistent with what I said. Threads may be closed if they are considered to have gone off track, even if none of the posters involved may be violating rules. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/39 "2009-06-29T03:36:31Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > In the old days, somebody could open a thread in the Pit saying, “ **TubaDiva** is being an unfair moderator and a jerk because she closed my thread about how all dogs go to heaven and warned me not to start any more threads about it.”. Then if another poster thinks that the pit starter’s complaint is unwarranted, they could answer, “You’ve posted 100 threads in the past week about canine afterlives, so **Tuba** did the right thing here. You need to get over your fixation with dead dogs because it’s creeping people out”. **Except there’d probably be more obscenity by both posters because it’s the Pit and posters, for some reason, feel it’s obligatory.** Exactly. So the thread happens here and we skip the obscenity. I’m not seeing a problem. ---
**Author:** ![NoJustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecb155/32.png) [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094/40 "2009-06-29T04:06:01Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > In his attempts to calm people down (often after they’ve calmed down as Liberal points out) he takes a parting shot at whichever side he disagrees with and just fans the flames. Oh, so that’s [what that was](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11288881&postcount=95). I’ve been racking my brain to try to figure out how the quoted text could be considered trolling, or in any way a violation of any rules, (even the ones he made up himself for me specifically in that thread) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-rescind-the-rule-forbidding-mod-rule-complaints-in-the-pit/501094.md?page=3)