# Suggestion that women moderate drinking to avoid getting assaulted met with extreme outrage - Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 24, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156 "2013-10-24T20:04:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/21 "2013-10-24T20:48:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > **Ever notice how men are never told to moderate their drinking so as to reduce their chances of committing rape against someone?** I have no data to support this, but I’m willing to bet alcohol is responsible for both sides of the “rape” equation. > > I ain’t got a problem with women being lectured to as long as men get their fair share of finger-waggling. Is the typical rapist of a drunk woman also drunk or are they waiting for their prey to pass out? ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/22 "2013-10-24T20:49:08Z")
I think both sexes drink to excess to engage in behavior they wouldn’t otherwise engage in, then use the alcohol as an excuse. Obviously rape is a crime and should be prosecuted, but I think everyone should drink in moderation and not be out of control. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/23 "2013-10-24T20:54:04Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Is the typical rapist of a drunk woman also drunk or are they waiting for their prey to pass out? I don’t know. Is the typical rapist a predator who is constantly on the prowl for their next “prey”? Or is the typical rapist a horny dude with a penchant for misreading body language even when he’s sober, who has been taught that women say no when they really mean yes? Seems to me there’s a whole lot more of the latter than the former. Especially in the peer pressure cooker known as a college frat party. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/24 "2013-10-24T20:54:31Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Is the typical rapist of a drunk woman also drunk or are they waiting for their prey to pass out? I don’t have a link at hand (on a phone right now), but I have seen surveys of high school/college guys where significant percentages of them believe that sexual activity with girls in no/limited consent situations involving drinking and passing out or nearly so was OK if she had kissed them before passing out, if she barely complained (weak no’s instead of yelling), etc. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/25 "2013-10-24T20:59:05Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Ever notice how men are never told to moderate their drinking so as to reduce their chances of committing rape against someone? Ever notice how a man getting drunk and having sex is a rapist but a woman getting drunk and having sex is a victim? ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/26 "2013-10-24T21:03:28Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > So I’m flabbergasted that anyone thinks that authority figures need to step up the warnings with an extra dose of “you’re gonna go out and get yourself raped, missy, and that’s your fault.” I would be flabbergasted by that, too. But who’s saying it? > [@monstro](#): > > Ever notice how men are never told to moderate their drinking so as to reduce their chances of committing rape against someone? I have no data to support this, but I’m willing to bet alcohol is responsible for both sides of the “rape” equation. > > I ain’t got a problem with women being lectured to as long as men get their fair share of finger-waggling. I’m male and when I was in school we had plenty of finger-wagging directed at us, from freshman orientation on. I currently work with the military and there’s plenty of focus on men and their behavior in this community, too, considering what an issue sexual assault in the armed forces has become. I don’t think it’s at all fair to say that men and their behavior doesn’t get any attention. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/27 "2013-10-24T21:04:46Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Ever notice how a man getting drunk and having sex is a rapist but a woman getting drunk and having sex is a victim? Most people who get drunk and have sex are neither. But if you’re talking about drunk past the point of being able to consent, most men _can’t_ have sex in that condition. I know I can’t. If a man in that condition is penetrated, he’s certainly a victim. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/28 "2013-10-24T21:06:53Z")
I think there is a difference between blaming an actual victim of rape and issuing a warning to potential victims. That said, and as another poster mentioned upthread, it’s not like this article broke new ground and I’m sure college women are bombarded with this message. I also think there needs to be a bigger effort put forth toward the male side of the equation and the author missed an opportunity to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/29 "2013-10-24T21:07:04Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Ever notice how a man getting drunk and having sex is a rapist but a woman getting drunk and having sex is a victim? Great point. Maybe we should stop analogizing men to apex predators and women to unwary jungle-wanderers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/30 "2013-10-24T21:11:38Z")
[A more detailed response to Yoffe and to this issue in general.](http://www.thenation.com/blog/176710/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-rape%C2%A0#) I think this stuff is pretty understandable and instructive if you’re willing to listen to it. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/31 "2013-10-24T21:12:34Z")
Coupla problems I have with it: - So? Is this news? Does she think that women do not already, with every move they make, take into account the risks they run? Sometimes you just make the informed decision to get shit-faced. And then if you do, and you get raped, then what? Nothing, because it still wasn’t your fault. Only it’ll still feel that way for the rest of your life. Great help there, Yoffe. - Her article says 80% of students will answer, when asked, that they have been assaulted while drunk. Yet very few report it. That’s a little hint, there. Why aren’t they reporting it? Because they already bloody know this! They _shouldn’t_ have been drinking, because you could get raped, and they _shouldn’t_ have been wearing that, and they _shouldn’t_ have been out after dark, and they shouldn’t have done a thousand things and it’s all their own fault. So what is this article for?! Women know this. And they decide that life is not worth living if you can’t do certain things because _you might get raped_. Well you might still be raped if you don’t do those things, and life is guaranteed to be more boring if you don’t do any of those things. So how about we just let women make those decisions for themselves and stop patronising and victim blaming. She literally says in the article “I’m not saying a woman is responsible for being sexually victimized, but". Sounds remarkably like “I’m not racist, but”. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/32 "2013-10-24T21:12:54Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Ever notice how a man getting drunk and having sex is a rapist but a woman getting drunk and having sex is a victim? I’ve never noticed this. I’ve also never noticed men being warned not to drink to excess to ward off attacks from women. But they need to be told this, right? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/33 "2013-10-24T21:16:02Z")
We should offer classes on how to drink responsibly. Teach kids how to handle their high in a controlled environment, then send them off with certificates. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/34 "2013-10-24T21:41:04Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Teach kids how to handle their high in a controlled environment, then send them off with certificates. We do. It’s called college. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/35 "2013-10-24T21:52:53Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Same question that **Jimmy Chitwood** asked **Bricker**. Do we have a history of refusing to believe people really had their cars broken into? Our history of ignoring rapes, or sweeping them under the rug, or just trying to make the cases go away is a real thing. It’s not some relic of a bygone era - it’s something that’s still going on today, and the “advice” like the linked article in the OP does more to continue that tradition than it does to prevent future rapes. No, it doesn’t. The advice in the article does absolutely nothing to continue that tradition. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/36 "2013-10-24T22:03:35Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > [You can find plenty of examples of people responding to what Yoffe wrote.](http://www.salon.com/2013/10/16/blaming_assault_on_womens_drinking_is_tired_dangerous_rape_apology/) The problem isn’t that it’s bad advice, it’s that it’s incomplete and doesn’t address the whole problem. And it should be emphasized that women get this advice all the time. Yoffe wasn’t exactly breaking new ground in advising college girls not to drink too much at parties. The response is, ‘OK, that might protect individual women, but what about encouraging guys not to rape drunk girls?’ That would be, and is, horribly insulting to most men and totally ineffectual on actual rapists. Alcohol is bad. It causes violent crimes. Those under the influence are more likely to be both perptrator and victim of all manner of crimes against the person. I’ve certainly heard of men raped whil unconscious from the effects of alcohol, and of men accused of rape just because their partner was drunk, even if they were too. But no warnings are issued for that because no-one care. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/37 "2013-10-24T22:22:13Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Same question that **Jimmy Chitwood** asked **Bricker**. Do we have a history of refusing to believe people really had their cars broken into? Someone’s never reported a theft. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/38 "2013-10-24T22:47:37Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > The response is, ‘OK, that might protect individual women, but what about encouraging guys not to rape drunk girls?’ _We already do that._ Why do you _think_ the government says “If you rape anyone, we will put you in prison”? ---
**Author:** ![boozilu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@boozilu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boozilu)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/39 "2013-10-24T23:38:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And I should be able to walk down a dark alley in Hunt’s Point at night with a diamond pinky ring and fifties sticking out of my pocket with no fear of being robbed. > > But there’s nothing but idiocy in saying that the ideological “I should” should yield to the obvious truth about the world: I cannot. I find two things interesting about this argument: - We might say the feller with the diamond pinky ring is a moron, but that doesn’t deter the authorities from vigorously prosecuting the thief. - The feller with the diamond pinky ring is putting himself in a dangerous situation, so this argument implies that parties are dangerous situations for girls (full of potential rapists!) and they should not get drunk because they might not be able to fight off the boys. Whatever happened to the days when you’d see a friend get drunk and bring her home/get her out of there before anything happened? Why don’t we tell our boys that if they see a girl (or anyone, really) in trouble they should step in and stop a crime from happening? (btw, I’m a parent of both boys and girls, and advise both to not act like morons.) ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156/40 "2013-10-25T00:15:07Z")
Conversely men should not drink themselves too drunk as it tends to cloud their judgement and make them think it is ok to rape women. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestion-that-women-moderate-drinking-to-avoid-getting-assaulted-met-with-extreme-outrage-why/672156.md?page=3)