# Suggestions for Specific Demands for Occupy Wall Street **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427 "2011-10-03T13:13:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/202 "2011-10-17T16:17:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Nope. But I can be sure of one damn thing, and that is that if a populist movement arises to split the Dem Party, that movement will get big fat checks from Americans for Crunchy Goodness. Why build a new party rather than change the one thats already there? > > Now, is that the same old grim song about coalition politics? And does it leave a sour taste in my mouth? Yep. But you have to win to make the changes you want. Yuck-o-rama, but there it is. Nobody would be more pleased than I to see a populist party rise and take power. I would also like a unicorn that eats Republicans and shits Maui Wowee. > > Risk is too great. I’m not sure you have a choice, luci. The Dem leadership is going to have to make an honest attempt to reach out to the OWLs and accommodate a few populist views, PARTICULARLY with regard to Wall Street … which OWNS the Democratic leadership. I don’t think the Democratic leadership can or will do it. So … yuck, indeed, luci. I see Pubbies grabbing the government and running American democracy into the ground if things continue as projected. Risk is not the word! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/203 "2011-10-17T16:23:10Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I see Pubbies grabbing the government and running American democracy into the ground if things continue as projected. Unless the Tea Party succeeds in taking over the GOP – and marginalizing it. Then, if the OWSers take over the Dems, it becomes a contest to see which extremist-controlled major party can marginalize itself **less.** It would be a refreshing change, at least. And I’m pretty sure the Dems would win in that scenario. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/204 "2011-10-17T16:38:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Ya sure?](http://www.salon.com/2011/10/11/democrats_populism/singleton/) Luci is right though, Dems and progressives in general need all the help they can get. But as the link indicates, the Dem leadership is really, really OWNED by Wall Street. The Dem leadership may well be starting to realize that everyone knows they are owned by Wall Street – that bubble around Washington must be fairly thick. If so, look for one or maybe two or three highly publicized show trials of people associated with, but not necessarily central to, the Wall Street collapse, to show that Obama and the Dem leadership “get it” and “are not bought.” Sorta like the Martha Stewart trial was the public response to the IPO scandal while the hordes of actually guilty parties skittered out of the light. Not sure it will work, but if they try anything, that’s the sort of thing they will try. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/205 "2011-10-17T16:49:39Z")
The Democrat leadership! The _menshevik_, “business friendly”, “centrist”, Clintonista, three legged Blue Dead Dog Democratic leadership! Slooooowly, I turned. Inch by inch, step by step… Can’t stand them. But let me tell you about the time I was wrong. When I didn’t have enough faith in my people. When I didn’t think Obama could do it, when I was steeling myself for the prospect of voting for Hilary!! _Aaaaaaarrrgh!_ But I would have done it. Other men have taken a bullet for their country, all I had to face was puking my guts out. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/206 "2011-10-17T18:52:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The Democrat leadership! The _menshevik_, “business friendly”, “centrist”, Clintonista, three legged Blue Dead Dog Democratic leadership! Slooooowly, I turned. Inch by inch, step by step… > > Can’t stand them. But let me tell you about the time I was wrong. When I didn’t have enough faith in my people. When I didn’t think Obama could do it, when I was steeling myself for the prospect of voting for Hilary!! _Aaaaaaarrrgh!_ > > But I would have done it. Other men have taken a bullet for their country, all I had to face was puking my guts out. Luci, the business friendly Dems are not gonna fix the economy. The Pubs aren’t going to either. You see where this is going? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/207 "2011-10-17T22:29:19Z")
I have a sense that the admin intends to make moves against the bankers. All they heard from before this time, was the bankers who have such great access . Now they are finding out there are a lot of people seriously pissed off. There are people from all walks of life asking for the economy to be fixed and the bankers to undergo legal scrutiny. Now they can do it and not suffer politically. Most likely they will gain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/208 "2011-10-17T22:45:53Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Luci, the business friendly Dems are not gonna fix the economy. The Pubs aren’t going to either. You see where this is going? Voting for Henry Wallace? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/209 "2011-10-17T23:05:56Z")
Fire them. Or, fire some of them to encourage the others. When the people lead, the leaders will follow. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/210 "2011-10-18T01:10:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Voting for Henry Wallace? I was going to just paint myself blue … but that works, too! Oops, wrong Wallace … ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/211 "2011-10-18T01:14:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Fire them. Or, fire some of them to encourage the others. When the people lead, the leaders will follow. Hell, luci, I live in Georgia outside Atlanta. It’s been decades since I voted for a winner outside the national elections, and damn few of them. I’d love to fire EVERY LAST CONGRESSMAN WHO REPRESENTS ME … and I try, every election, without success … makes a man a bit cynical. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/212 "2011-10-18T01:19:10Z")
Being a lefty means taking your lumps, and that ain’t fun. Hell, if it weren’t for all the hot sex and free drugs, I probably wouldn’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2011, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/213 "2011-10-18T06:21:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Unless the Tea Party succeeds in taking over the GOP – and marginalizing it. Then, if the OWSers take over the Dems, it becomes a contest to see which extremist-controlled major party can marginalize itself **less.** > > It would be a refreshing change, at least. And I’m pretty sure the Dems would win in that scenario. So… the OWSers ought to encourage the TPers, then take over the Dems? How would they go about influencing a major party directly though? They have seemed pretty averse to indulging leaders or celebrities, or submitting to the notion of “official behavior”. Their MO is completely different- no heirarchy is another example. And, what is up with the conservative message that the wealthy are all super-talented savants? ISTM conservatives push the notion that great wealth is deserved. By the same moral logic, poverty is also earned. When the perceived economic environment is dominated by scams, that’s pretty irritating. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/214 "2011-10-19T01:26:56Z")
Tea Party Express co-founder supports 99% Occupy Wall Street movement. [Tea Party co-founder expresses support for Occupy Wall Street - thoughts.com conversation engine](http://occupywallstreet.thoughts.com/mnicholson2/tea-party-co-founder-expresses-support-for-occupy-wall-street) \*\*“The problem with protests and the political process is that it is very easy, no matter how big the protest is, for the politicians to simply wait until the people go home,” financial blogger Karl Denninger observed. “And then they can ignore you.” “Well, Occupy Wall Street was a little different,” he continued. “And back in 2008, I wrote that when we will actually see change is when the people come, they set up camp, and they refuse to go home. That appears to be happening now.”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/215 "2011-10-19T14:03:40Z")
It seems like he supports them, but he doesn’t ever really say that. It’s more like he is advising them on tactics rather than giving them his endorsement. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/216 "2011-10-20T00:09:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It seems like he supports them, but he doesn’t ever really say that. It’s more like he is advising them on tactics rather than giving them his endorsement. [Tea Party co-founder expresses support for Occupy Wall Street - thoughts.com conversation engine](http://occupywallstreet.thoughts.com/mnicholson2/tea-party-co-founder-expresses-support-for-occupy-wall-street) I do not think Karl Denninger could have been any more clear about his support for Occupy Wall Street, “Stay on message, which is that the corruption is not a singular event,” Denninger urged. “You can’t focus in one place. You have to get the money out of politics, which is very difficult to do, but at the same time you can’t silence people’s voice.” So, John Mace, what is your real agenda in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/217 "2011-10-20T00:29:32Z")
> [@Cyclone](#): > > [Tea Party co-founder expresses support for Occupy Wall Street - thoughts.com conversation engine](http://occupywallstreet.thoughts.com/mnicholson2/tea-party-co-founder-expresses-support-for-occupy-wall-street) > > I do not think Karl Denninger could have been any more clear about his support for Occupy Wall Street, “Stay on message, which is that the corruption is not a singular event,” Denninger urged. “You can’t focus in one place. You have to get the money out of politics, which is very difficult to do, but at the same time you can’t silence people’s voice.” > > So, John Mace, what is your real agenda in this thread? The headline says he supports them, but he didn’t write the headline. He seems to agree with the idea of getting money out of politics, but the Occupiers are about a lot more than that. Is he good with forgiving student loans? Does he want everyone to have free internet access and cell phones? Free health care? That’s what is being discussed in another thread where some Occupiers issued those demands as part of a larger package. If the occupiers were only about eliminating “corruption” and getting the money out of politics, then I could buy into this guy supporting them. But they are not just about that. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/218 "2011-10-20T04:47:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is he good with forgiving student loans? Does he want everyone to have free internet access and cell phones? Free health care? That’s what is being discussed in another thread where some Occupiers issued those demands as part of a larger package. > > If the occupiers were only about eliminating “corruption” and getting the money out of politics, then I could buy into this guy supporting them. But they are not just about that. I saw it in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14375896&postcount=97). Consider what I have been talking about in the context of, from [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14357447&postcount=834) > [@](#): > > I would say it’s more complicated than that. Wall Street, and by extension Big Law, Big-4 professional services firms and white shoe management consultancies have become a sort of corporate overclass. Don’t get me wrong. People who work at these places are certainly very smart and have to work very hard. But there are very real class barriers to get into these types of companies. You need to go to the right schools, have the right background and right mannarisms. It has become a self-perpetuating class that most Americans are not smart or educated enough to ever join. On the one hand there is the message that if you work hard, go to school (while amassing $20k, $50k, $100k in debt), once you finish there will be a nice job waiting for you with which you can pay back the loan and society to boot. But then you find out that **msmith537** is right, turns out it is a class system after all, and basically you have to be born into it to get into it. The supernormal powers aren’t just something you can achieve by being good, goals today aren’t those kinds of goals. Going to school ain’t it. They told you that to get you to take out a giant loan. A different group didn’t do so well in school, so they got them to take out home loans with absurd terms. The people offering the loans took out insurance on those loans’ failure, so that they could recover the full value of any loan regardless of whether or not the lendee could pay back the loan. Suprise, they only cared about signing as many loans as possible! For every sucker, the bill got passed onto the taxpayers and the financiers stashed the loot. It is a lot of money, looks like we need to put unemployment insurance on the block, along with Medicare, Social Security, any kind of public health care consideration, education, you name it… If they had behaved more like yoga philosophers, they would have given people sincere and insightful advice rather than misleading them into scams. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/219 "2011-10-20T14:05:50Z")
Karl Denninger has been writing about financial fraud and corruption for years and years on his blog. He supports the protesters that are rallying around the idea that we need to “stop the looting and start prosecuting” (his favorite slogan). I can’t speak for him, but based on what I’ve read from him, no - he would find the idea of free everything for everyone incredibly stupid. edit: [Here](http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=196201)’s a post by him giving his opinion on each of the demands that have been released. ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/220 "2011-10-21T00:14:47Z")
**As an aside.** This thread is extremely popular. The Original Post was on October 3, 2011. There have been 218 posts, and 4,219 views! This might be some kind of record. [Occupy Wall Street - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street) Any way you look at this it is good for The Straight Dope, America, and perhaps the world beyond. Hey Tea Party, please take the 99% seriously, and consider joining up with OWS, Occupy Wall Street. Official Website, [Official Website, Occupy Wall Street](http://occupywallst.org/) [http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2011/10/10/171743-occupy-wall-street.jpg](http://img.ibtimes.com/www/data/images/full/2011/10/10/171743-occupy-wall-street.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Cyclone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/db5fbb/32.png) [@Cyclone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyclone)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427/221 "2011-10-21T18:59:08Z")
> [@In which I pit God](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/in-which-i-pit-god/215695/86): > > Translation: > > GIMMEE GIMMEE GIMMEE I pulled out my _Almanac of American History_ by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. to read about the Tories during the American Revolution. You recall the Tories were the loyalists to England and supported the actions of British troops. Tory commentary sounds very much the same as the 1%. There are always a few who place their own interests above the needs of those who are disadvantaged. And, there is only one language they understand - violence of the many, trumps the greed of a few. Just some food for thought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suggestions-for-specific-demands-for-occupy-wall-street/598427.md?page=12)