# Suicidal idiot changes mind, but leaves vehicle on train tracks, then tragedy ensues. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2005, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicidal-idiot-changes-mind-but-leaves-vehicle-on-train-tracks-then-tragedy-ensues/286819 "2005-01-26T21:06:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicidal-idiot-changes-mind-but-leaves-vehicle-on-train-tracks-then-tragedy-ensues/286819/61 "2005-01-28T14:34:51Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > While you may be correct, chiding **ivylass** for thinking is a flawed approach. Alert, aware citizens are the first line of protection we have as a nation. As a first responder, I’d much rather scramble for a false alarm that was initiated by a well meaning citizen looking our for their neighbors than hear afterwards that people saw things but didn’t want to trouble the authorities because they thought it was nothing. True. Alert, aware citizens could also help prevent theft, drug-trafficking, kidnapping, child endangerment and so on…none of which are likely terrorist dry runs (well, maybe they do finance with drugs, but they’re hardly alone in drug dealing). > [@ivylass](#): > > Look, I’m the chick who didn’t realize it was a terrorist attack until the second plane hit. Until then I thought it was just a horrible accident. I think in these times it is not unreasonable to have a thought pop into your head that it might be something more. Neither did many of us who were right across the street, at least until later. Yet no one who was there and is still around started talking about a “suicide by train” individual being a terrorist experimenter. Maybe we’re more jaded; local subway and rail crossing suicides are common enough that the story only gets buried deep in the paper (unless you get a confluence of events, such as in CA). ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicidal-idiot-changes-mind-but-leaves-vehicle-on-train-tracks-then-tragedy-ensues/286819/62 "2005-01-28T16:43:39Z")
I thought it was crazy enough that the D.A. was pushing murder charges; the death penalty? That’s fuckin’ nuts. To get a murder conviction, they’re going to have to prove that this guy knew that his Jeep Cherokee could derail a train, or that a reasonable person would have known that. I sure as hell didn’t know that – I’m still thinking that if it weren’t for this “push train” configuration, it wouldn’t have derailed. So how is the jury going to find him guilty? Where’s the element of malice? Where’s the intent? Where did the D.A. go to law school? On top of that, the guy may have been incapable of conceiving that the train would derail – inability to perceive the consequences of one’s actions is a classic criterion for legal insanity. It’s impossible to back down now; it’ll be political suicide to let the guy plead down, or to reduce the charges. So they’re going to go in and try to get a murder conviction, and nothing but, and the jury will let him walk. That, or the judge will vacate the decision. The same thing happened with a similar act of prosecutorial idiocy in San Francisco (remember the dog-mauling case?). ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicidal-idiot-changes-mind-but-leaves-vehicle-on-train-tracks-then-tragedy-ensues/286819/63 "2005-01-28T18:59:30Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > I thought it was crazy enough that the D.A. was pushing murder charges; the death penalty? That’s fuckin’ nuts. To get a murder conviction, they’re going to have to prove that this guy knew that his Jeep Cherokee could derail a train, or that a reasonable person would have known that. I sure as hell didn’t know that – I’m still thinking that if it weren’t for this “push train” configuration, it wouldn’t have derailed. So how is the jury going to find him guilty? Where’s the element of malice? Where’s the intent? Where did the D.A. go to law school? > > On top of that, the guy may have been incapable of conceiving that the train would derail – inability to perceive the consequences of one’s actions is a classic criterion for legal insanity. > > It’s impossible to back down now; it’ll be political suicide to let the guy plead down, or to reduce the charges. So they’re going to go in and try to get a murder conviction, and nothing but, and the jury will let him walk. That, or the judge will vacate the decision. The same thing happened with a similar act of prosecutorial idiocy in San Francisco (remember the dog-mauling case?). IANAL, but I think the act of parking his jeep on the tracks was a felony and whenever somebody is killed while a crime is being committed, even if that was not the intent, then the accused can be charged with murder. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicidal-idiot-changes-mind-but-leaves-vehicle-on-train-tracks-then-tragedy-ensues/286819/64 "2005-01-28T19:08:20Z")
I saw an legal analyst on the news saying prosecutors usually go for the max. They can then negotiate down from there. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicidal-idiot-changes-mind-but-leaves-vehicle-on-train-tracks-then-tragedy-ensues/286819/65 "2005-01-28T19:20:09Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I saw an legal analyst on the news saying prosecutors usually go for the max. They can then negotiate down from there. Concur. And they tell the news outlets the maximum possible sentence, which always gets repeated, versus the most likely sentence. Adds another level of fear to the negotiations. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicidal-idiot-changes-mind-but-leaves-vehicle-on-train-tracks-then-tragedy-ensues/286819/66 "2005-01-28T19:50:16Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > IANAL, but I think the act of parking his jeep on the tracks was a felony and whenever somebody is killed while a crime is being committed, even if that was not the intent, then the accused can be charged with murder. Wrong. obstructing a train **WITH THE INTENT TO DERAIL IT** is a felony. If they can prove that he even knew a Jeep _could_ derail a train, they might have something. Merely interfering with a train is a misdemeanor. See if this link works: [WAIS Document Retrieval](http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=9410186084+12+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve) or look up: CALIFORNIA CODES PENAL CODE SECTION 217.1-219.3 > [@ivylass](#): > > I saw an legal analyst on the news saying prosecutors usually go for the max. They can then negotiate down from there. Normally, that’s good strategy; I’m not sure, though, that it’s so smart to raise those expectations immediately in the wake of such a tragedy. People will get kinda pissed if he pleas down to manslaughter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicidal-idiot-changes-mind-but-leaves-vehicle-on-train-tracks-then-tragedy-ensues/286819.md?page=3)