Suicide Bombers in Iraq - Who are they?

[Mehitabel]

Good article from the Times about the insurgency and the Sunni role.

Some Sunni Arabs are convinced that they form the majority by themselves and cite a secret Iraqi intelligence agency census from the mid-1990’s to back their claims. This is not the conspiracy theory of extremists but of American-educated, wealthy Iraqis who were thrilled by the American invasion.

The Sunni Arabs have run Iraq since the Ottoman era under the same illusion that affects every group in controls of a society - that they are the natural rulers because they are more educated and harder working. They often view the predominantly Shia southern Iraq as lazy, corrupt and promiscuous. This is not so much a sectarian division as a cultural one, a north-south relationship with almost racist overtones. It is this attitude, combined with a fear of Iran, that allows many Sunnis to justify Saddam Hussein’s oppression of the Shiites.

Sounds like the Klan after the Civil War in a few ways. And if they want to ensure that their regions remain, like the South, poverty-stricken and backwards for a few more decades, then they’re going the right way about it.

[OliverTwistofLime]

@tagos

ICan you please, as this is not the PIT, provide a cite to support your contention and then explain how this knowledge in any way helps us to defeat the insurgency?

Tagos, let me try again…Perhaps as many as 85-95% of the Iraquis risked their lifes in their election to support a reasonably democratic regime. Only 5 to perhaps as many as 15% of the people do not wish to see a democratic regime exist and appear willing to sacrifice their lives as well as other men, women, and children. This minority is known as insurgents or terrorists.

How difficult is it to ask them WHY they are willing to give up their lives? There are hundreds if not thousands of this minority who have been injured or captured.

The insurgents or terrorists exist in Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan to name but a few countries. We do not have the manpower to attack them all.

Now, I am asking you the following: What do you think we can learn or understand about this minority that will get them to see the light…put down their arms and the world lives happy ever after?

Education would help…My point in previous posts was that the educated enlist the services of the poor uneducated individuals primarily to kill themselves and others. This is not name calling. This is sad and I believe truthful.

[villa]

@Eolbo

I think in the scheme of things the propaganda point of whether its an Iraqi or a foreigner isnt a very big one. It may be right it may be wrong but the idea that iraqis identify more with their own countrymen and are less likely to blow up random civilians seems plausible to me regardless of who said it.

In the scheme of things, I think the propaganda point of the citizenship of the bombers is a very big deal. Remember how snce Day one we have been told that the insurgents were non-Iraqis. It matters to the authorities that this is not being done by locals.

Note this is not saying it is not foreigners doing the suicide bombings - I simply don’t know. But there exists a very good reason for the authorities to claim it is foreigners

[tagos]

@MadSam

Tagos, let me try again…Perhaps as many as 85-95% of the Iraquis risked their lifes in their election to support a reasonably democratic regime. Only 5 to perhaps as many as 15% of the people do not wish to see a democratic regime exist and appear willing to sacrifice their lives as well as other men, women, and children. This minority is known as insurgents or terrorists.

How difficult is it to ask them WHY they are willing to give up their lives? There are hundreds if not thousands of this minority who have been injured or captured.

The insurgents or terrorists exist in Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Jordan to name but a few countries. We do not have the manpower to attack them all.

Now, I am asking you the following: What do you think we can learn or understand about this minority that will get them to see the light…put down their arms and the world lives happy ever after?

Education would help…My point in previous posts was that the educated enlist the services of the poor uneducated individuals primarily to kill themselves and others. This is not name calling. This is sad and I believe truthful.

Well, your turnout figures are wrong to start with and anyone with any knowledge of the subject agree that the insurgency is overwhelmingly local not foreign.

Iraq election commision backtracks

Turnout figures recently announced represent the enormous and understandable enthusiasm felt in the field on this historic day… However, these figures are only very rough, word-of-mouth estimates gathered informally from the field. It will take some time for the Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq to issue accurate figures on turnout.

A Commission spokesman did suggest, however, that approximately eight million people may still have voted in the poll, about 60% of the eligible electorate.

IISS Report

The thinktank report points to US estimates that there are between 12,000 and 20,000 hardcore insurgents in Iraq. It says that Iraqi politicians have been keen to blame the rise in sectarian violence on foreign jihadists. “But they may have overstated their case.”

Toby Dodge, senior fellow at the IISS and expert on Iraq, estimated yesterday that there were about 1,000 foreign fighters in Iraq “perfecting the use of car bombs” and causing more problems across the region, including Saudi Arabia. There seemed to be no “viable exit strategy” for foreign troops.

You haven’t demonstrated any knowledge of the situation, knowledge that isn’t obscure or hard to find, just common knowlwdge anyone should have before they express an opinion, so there is no point continuing this debate.

[OliverTwistofLime]

Its difficult to debate someone who says the secret of winning the battle against the insurgents is to try and understand why they commit suicide murders.

tagos , his subtle name calling did not produce the answer he desires. Thuslly we shall debate this issue no further.

[Latro]

@MadSam

Its difficult to debate someone who says the secret of winning the battle against the insurgents is to try and understand why they commit suicide murders.

Sorry, but Tagos is absolutely right in this.
You must know who you are fighting. Your painting of the opposition is not based on reality.
How can you know who to target,if you are delusional about who the target is and what you need to target him with?

[OliverTwistofLime]

@Latro

Sorry, but Tagos is absolutely right in this.
You must know who you are fighting. Your painting of the opposition is not based on reality.
How can you know who to target,if you are delusional about who the target is and what you need to target him with?

Since you agree with tagos makes him absolutely right, I’ll take it from your point of view.

Suicide/murderous bombings have gone on for years and years…How long do the two of you think it will take to …understand the legitimacy of thought by the suicide/murderous bombers?

What do you think the reason is? and knowing same, how are you going to get them to cease? Thats all I ask from you.

[Harborwolf]

@MadSam

What do you think the reason is? and knowing same, how are you going to get them to cease? Thats all I ask from you.

Well, the religious ones are, for all intents and purposes, untreatable. Their motivation comes from a higher power (okay, the higher power is mental illness ) so there is no way to talk them out of it.

As for the rest, improved standards of living would work wonders. It’s harder than hell to do, but it would help deal with the frustration, rage, and depression. You could say that those feelings exist in countries that are well to do like the U.S., but we don’t have people blowing themselves up on a daily basis.