# Suicide Bombing In Israel **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616 "2004-01-29T18:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/81 "2004-01-30T21:25:30Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > There are, sadly some very grey areas for this generally pro-Israel sorta-Jew: > > • The Israeli government _has_ undeniably made some bone-headed moves, could sometimes handle the situation better, and has had some lunatic right-wing leaders. > > • Which doesn’t alter the fact that Israel is completely surrounded by Jew-hating nations who want nothing more than to see Israel destroyed and all Jews driven into the sea. > > Solutions? I see none. I’m with you, Eve. But I wouldn’t exactly call myself “pro-Israel” (not anti- either, though). I just think to myself; if someone gave you an expensive Christmas present and you KNEW that they had stolen it, how would you feel about accepting it? ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/82 "2004-01-30T21:34:14Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > —As far as I can tell the only prominent Muslim speaking out against mass murder and insanity is [this woman](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312326998/qid=1075493400/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6609100-0476832?v=glance&s=books). And I’m sure she’s got the life expectancy of a fruit fly. I can’t believe I missed this post the first time! Luckily for her, Irshad Manji is a Canadian. The fact that she lives here in Canuckistan probably cuts her risk of being mowed down by extremists by, oh let’s say, 80%. And she’s a gendy-bendy lesbian! Uh, 70% then. To be on the safe side. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/83 "2004-01-30T21:34:57Z")
Poor Cheekymonkey, not being able to bulldoze over innocent women and children. My heart feels for you, it really does. ---
**Author:** ![CheekyMonkey613](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e480ec/32.png) [@CheekyMonkey613](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CheekyMonkey613)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/84 "2004-01-30T22:01:29Z")
> [@Tars Tarkas](#): > > Poor Cheekymonkey, not being able to bulldoze over innocent women and children. My heart feels for you, it really does. Awww … Like the innocent women and children on the bus? And the innocent people in pizzerias? And in the mall? And the discotheques? It’s random and it’s to inspire fear. It’s purpose is to kill the Israeli soul and faith. I’m sorry Tars, it has to end somewhere. It’s impossible to negotiate with a people whose mission is to eradicate you. This has been proven. They don’t want the land. They want the Jews OFF the land. It’s a given and has been publicly stated that their mission is to get rid of Jews. That will never happen. Israel is the Holy Land and that’s the way it is. Unless you’re willing to kill every Jew on the planet, it is not up for grabs. Furthermore, why is every Palestinian “innocent woman and child” more important than every innocent Iraqi woman and child who have been killed in Iraq? They aren’t. And get this, last time I checked, Iraqis weren’t blowing themselves up in the States. So Bush should put a sock in it and shut the fuck up when it comes to Israel defending herself. ---
**Author:** ![CheekyMonkey613](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e480ec/32.png) [@CheekyMonkey613](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CheekyMonkey613)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/85 "2004-01-30T22:33:19Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > “Zionist” is not a synonym for “Jew.” > > A Zionist is a Jew who believes in creating a Jewish state in Palestine. Thus, all Zionists are Jews, but not all Jews are Zionists, and stating that you want to eradicate Zionists is not the same as stating that you want to eradicate all Jews. > > Therefore, that statement in that document does NOT support your assertion that Arafat’s government wants to “wipe out all Jews” **Absolutely incorrect.** While a Jew is not necessarily a Zionist, a Zionist is not necessarily a Jew. Many goyim (gentiles, non-Jews) are Zionists. **Zionism** : an international movement orig. for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel _(Merriam-Webster)_ **Zionism** : movement establishing and developing a Jewish state: a worldwide movement, originating in the 19th century, that sought to establish and develop a Jewish nation in Palestine. Since 1948 its function has been to support the state of Israel. _(MSN Encarta)_ However, Arafat _does_ want to wipe out all Jews, accept it or not. Nothing would please him more. How this guy got the [Nobel Peace Prize 1994](http://almaz.com/nobel/peace/1994a.html) is beyond me. He claims innocence/ignorance for every suicide bombing. Tell me, how is it that [Saddam Hussein (the ‘bad man’ leader of another country the US decided was so evil he HAD to be taken down) can donate $25 000 US to Palestinian suicide bombers’ families](http://www.intelligence.org.il/eng/bu/iraq/iraq_f_a.htm), yet Arafat has no knowledge of what’s going on? And _if_ Arafat is indeed out of control as far as Hamas and terrorism from his country is concerned, he’s out of control of his country and should be pulled from leadership. Arnie got in for less. It’s black and white. No grey here. If you can’t see it, maybe I should start calling people stupid like you do, **Metacom**. Back to the original spirit of my OP, WHY DOES BUSH TELL ISRAEL TO CALM DOWN WHEN UNDER TERRORIST ATTACK, yet he’s claimed war on terrorism? How can he go into Iraq on SUSPICIONS (against Blix & company) yet tell Israel not to defend herself when there is _clear and present danger_ to her civilians from what cannot be described other than terrorism? BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/86 "2004-01-30T22:57:48Z")
> [@gum](#): > > **Metacom** I sure hope you can understand [though not condone, ofcourse :rolleyes:] this: > > “martyr” Samy Rahim “Every day on which the sun rises and no Jew is killed, nor any martyr has died, will be a day for which we will be punished by Allah.” (Al-Istiqlal, August 20, 2001). That is fundamentally different from that which I said I could understand: this advocates killing all jews, the other advocates killing Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/87 "2004-01-30T23:04:30Z")
> [@CheekyMonkey613](#): > > Awww … Like the innocent women and children on the bus? And the innocent people in pizzerias? And in the mall? And the discotheques? And where did i say that? (I didn’t. Good job making up stawmen to deflect from your call for genocide) > [@](#): > > I’m sorry Tars, it has to end somewhere. According to you it should end with Holocaust 2: Electric Boogaloo. [quote] It’s impossible to negotiate with a people whose mission is to eradicate you. This has been proven. They don’t want the land. They want the Jews OFF the land. It’s a given and has been publicly stated that their mission is to get rid of Jews. That will never happen. Israel is the Holy Land and that’s the way it is. [quote] Not every Palestinian is in Hamas. Perhaps if you knew anything, you’d realize that the extremeist groups need Isreal hating them to survive, that every reprisal Isreal launches that kills innocents only increases Hamas’s numbers. Fools like you call for crackdowns that will only lead to Isreal’s Ostracism from the global community, invasion from foreign powers, and America being dragged into a long bloody pointless war OR ignoring an ally and make our allies less likely to come to our aid. And in the second senario Isreal falls and you get your all “jews killed wish” > [@](#): > > Unless you’re willing to kill every Jew on the planet, it is not up for grabs. But it is up for grabs if we kill every Palestinian. Typical hypocritical bullshit. Please link to the site that has the life value of Palestinians listed below the Jews so we ca look up our own nationalities on it, that way us lesser beings can stop troubling the master race here. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, why is every Palestinian “innocent woman and child” more important than every innocent Iraqi woman and child who have been killed in Iraq? They aren’t. Odd, i don’t recall saying that. Let me check. Nope, not in my post. Good lie there, you almost had me (and when i say “almost”, i mean “shut the fuck up”). I DO recall marching against the war, but i bet the prospect of people being opposed to war is something as foriegn to your brain as common sense, so i can understand if you just skip over this paragraph while daydreaming of strafing playground. > [@](#): > > And get this, last time I checked, Iraqis weren’t blowing themselves up in the States. So Bush should put a sock in it and shut the fuck up when it comes to Israel defending herself. Yes, after all, who cares if Isreal’s idiotic actions gets the US drawn into a holy war of biblical proportions. As long as Isreal can “fight back” against the Palestinians (“fight back” should read as “run over rock throwing eight year olds with tanks”) what’s the problem? Let’s go, genocide, let’s GO!!! ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/88 "2004-01-30T23:11:41Z")
> [@CheekyMonkey613](#): > > **Absolutely incorrect.** The definitions you gave were for “Zionism.” The word I was discussing was “Zionist.” I’ve checked several sources for the definition of “Zionist,” and they all say something like “n: a Jewish supporter of Zionism.” [For example.](http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.0?stage=1&word=zionist) Perhaps there are multiple disagreeing definitions. It actually doesn’t matter. Whether or not a non-Jew can be a Zionist is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make: Arafat was advocating the death of those in Israel, not all Jews the world over. > [@](#): > > It’s black and white. No grey here. If you can’t see it, maybe I should start calling people stupid like you do, **Metacom**. I don’t think I’ve called anyone stupid. I’ve said that ideas and opinions were stupid, but not people. > [@](#): > > Back to the original spirit of my OP, WHY DOES BUSH TELL ISRAEL TO CALM DOWN WHEN UNDER TERRORIST ATTACK, yet he’s claimed war on terrorism? How can he go into Iraq on SUSPICIONS (against Blix & company) yet tell Israel not to defend herself when there is _clear and present danger_ to her civilians from what cannot be described other than terrorism? > > BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT. Ironically, I actually agree that Bush is being very hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/89 "2004-01-30T23:48:19Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > I just think to myself; if someone gave you an expensive Christmas present and you KNEW that they had stolen it, how would you feel about accepting it? Well, except that Christmas present I stole from you, your grandmother had stolen from my grandmother back in 1917. And when I offered you my grandma’s necklace and rings, you stabbed me with a kitchen knife. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/90 "2004-01-31T00:24:13Z")
That is an excellent point, Eve. But I would like to clarify that my analogy applies to _both sides_. History is full of conquering and genocide and exodus, both willing and forced. I’m tempted to say that no one has a claim to land unless they have the deed with their name on it in their little paws. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/91 "2004-01-31T01:28:59Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > That is an excellent point, Eve. But I would like to clarify that my analogy applies to _both sides_. Well, just stop stabbin’ me with a kitchen knife, and we’ll divvy up Grandma’s jewels, deal? ---
**Author:** ![CheekyMonkey613](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e480ec/32.png) [@CheekyMonkey613](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CheekyMonkey613)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/92 "2004-01-31T02:45:48Z")
> [@Tars Tarkas](#): > > And where did i say that?.. Odd, i don’t recall saying that. Let me check. Nope, not in my post. Good lie there, you almost had me (and when i say “almost”, i mean “shut the fuck up”). Tars, notice how when I quote YOU, I put it in QUOTE format? If this were a discussion between two people, I wouldn’t put it in this forum. When I say things like: > [@](#): > > Awww … Like the innocent women and children on the bus? And the innocent people in pizzerias? And in the mall? And the discotheques? _I_ am saying it _happened_. I’m not saying you said it. Talk about deflecting. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/93 "2004-01-31T04:07:13Z")
Anymore, I’m becoming pro-NEITHER side. Or anti. Is there any solution that doesn’t involve wiping the other side out? Will it ever fucking stop? Every time I read about this shit, I despair for humanity. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/94 "2004-01-31T05:29:56Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Anymore, I’m becoming pro-NEITHER side. Or anti. > > Is there any solution that doesn’t involve wiping the other side out? > Will it ever fucking stop? > > Every time I read about this shit, I despair for humanity. The U.S. invades, and occupies the area long enough for everyone to unite in driving us out. Either that, or sufficent cross-breeding ocurrs between Palestinian and Israeli that the issue becomes moot. Of course, with such strong cultural and religious identities, this would take a great deal of breeding. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/95 "2004-01-31T05:48:07Z")
> [@CheekyMonkey613](#): > > Awww … Like the innocent women and children on the bus? And the innocent people in pizzerias? And in the mall? And the discotheques? Baruch Goldstein ring any bells? > [@](#): > > It’s random and it’s to inspire fear. It’s purpose is to kill the Israeli soul and faith. Hard to communicate with the dead, but what else do they have to say? > [@](#): > > I’m sorry Tars, it has to end somewhere. It’s impossible to negotiate with a people whose mission is to eradicate you. This has been proven. They don’t want the land. They want the Jews OFF the land. It’s a given and has been publicly stated that their mission is to get rid of Jews. That will never happen. Israel is the Holy Land and that’s the way it is. Holy Land today. Historical footnote tomorrow. Eradicate or OFF the land, which is it? Why will it never happen, they seem a determined lot and all that stands between them & goal is the US’s capricious goodwill? > [@](#): > > Unless you’re willing to kill every Jew on the planet, it is not up for grabs. Whether willing or not, it needn’t take that much. Demographic change or just one successful military action. > [@](#): > > And get this, last time I checked, Iraqis weren’t blowing themselves up in the States. Too far to travel. > [@](#): > > So Bush should put a sock in it and shut the fuck up when it comes to Israel defending herself. Hasn’t even mentioned defence of the ‘Israel’ you keep referring to. Just some reservations about the lethal means used to continue the occupation of Palestine. ---
**Author:** ![Fang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/96bed5/32.png) [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/96 "2004-01-31T21:47:56Z")
Maybe they should just release more prisoners. I hear that [works](http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/389252.html) [well](http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=57024). ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/97 "2004-02-01T20:33:49Z")
Maybe someone should have a look at what kids are being taught. > [@](#): > > Palestinian University Election Based on Number of Jews Killed" > > ``` > This offensive item demonstrates the sickness that infects all levels of Palestinian society. It seems that a recent election was held at West Bank University and the ''student leadership'' (which consisted of terrorist groups) was rated on who had killed the most Jews. The ever-murderous Hamas took the prize. > > ``` [Perhaps that would help? \*_:\*_](http://http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=5275) ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/98 "2004-02-01T23:33:14Z")
> [@CheekyMonkey613](#): > > Tars, notice how when I quote YOU, I put it in QUOTE format? If this were a discussion between two people, I wouldn’t put it in this forum. > > When I say things like: > _I_ am saying it _happened_. I’m not saying you said it. > Talk about deflecting. Well, YOU’RE worth paying attention to. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CheekyMonkey613](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e480ec/32.png) [@CheekyMonkey613](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CheekyMonkey613)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/99 "2004-02-02T01:20:33Z")
> [@sevastopol](#): > > Baruch Goldstein ring any bells? You’re naming me ONE American-born Brooklynite Israeli who killed 29 Muslims with a rifle as what? Israelis are bad too? You’re naming me ONE person? Immediately after Goldstein shot himself, 26 Palestinians and 2 more Israelis died in a riot. Are we giving awards for post-mortem killings? Though some extremist Israelis praise his actions, none take claim of them. (Hint hint, like Hamas does). Most Israelis were disgusted by his actions and demanded that his actions not be glorified. This was ONE man acting on his own. So yes, his name rings a bell, but exactly what are you trying to say? In 1998 the Knesset (Israeli Assembly) passed a law that forbade monuments to martyrs (too bad we can’t say the same for Palestine’s way of thinking). In 2000, the small shrine that was built for Goldstein was detstroyed. I’m assuming you’re not prejudging Israelis altogether, based on one American immigrant criminal. So I ask: WHAT EXACTLY are you trying to say? If you’re asking me what I think of him … I equate him with Timothy McVeigh, but less gunpowder. You? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616/100 "2004-02-02T01:56:49Z")
You’re on very shaky ground if you want to claim that the Palestinians are any worse than the occupiers. “Israelis” as you call them. Besides Baruch, there are several Jewish terrorist groups organised there for attacks and revenge on Palestinians. The State itself does these groups out of some work, by engaging in indiscriminate reprisals and killings of innocent Palestinian civilians. The IDF is an organ of state-sponsored terrorism. Lastly the occupiers have no better claim to the territory than the Palestinians, whose homes and farms they live in daily. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/suicide-bombing-in-israel/226616.md?page=6)